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Hey it's Mat from Gibson Product Development - AMA

sputnik

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Aug 4, 2018
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15
Have you guys ever made anything with the copper iridescent finish? Joe B posted a ‘55 Les Paul on Instagram recently and I really like the color. Would love to do something M2M. Would you guys be able to do that finish?
 

jimipaf

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Aug 6, 2002
Messages
11
My gut says that they would have been potted. The spec sheet is from 2014 and just reads "Custombucker" in both pickup categories. I should point out that, in my opinion, potted pickups sound pretty much identical to unpotted pickups outside of the tendency to feed back. Just my observations. But that was the reason we went with unpotted, because feedback is part of the PAF experience. Thanks for the question!
Thank you for that. Next, what kind of materials were the bridge posts and wheels made out of as well as the stop tail piece posts and threaded inserts?
 

jimipaf

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Aug 6, 2002
Messages
11
My gut says that they would have been potted. The spec sheet is from 2014 and just reads "Custombucker" in both pickup categories. I should point out that, in my opinion, potted pickups sound pretty much identical to unpotted pickups outside of the tendency to feed back. Just my observations. But that was the reason we went with unpotted, because feedback is part of the PAF experience. Thanks for the question!
I did remove the covers to find out the pickups were potted but not the covers.
 

goldtop0

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Aug 19, 2003
Messages
8,259
I really like the nasal honk that these CBs put out and there are the overdriven harmonics with the potted ones even at a medium volume.
 

madrivermoco

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Sep 26, 2021
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Update: the neck was also Korina. Confirmed.
You made my whole day with this. My whole day. The impact of those American Stradivarius on the conjunto and r&b world of San Antonio…

It’s just damn cool…

If you need a hand connecting with some old heads from San Antonio’s r&b and conjunto scene, dm me.

Also

If you make one, count me in! In fact I promise I will go full Lloyd Dobler in Coach Popavich’s front yard and video tape the entire thing right up and including him form tackling me.

One more thing,
The music history part
The Westside Sound
 
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viper007

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Jul 26, 2007
Messages
1,538
Hi Mat. Know this is not a Custom Shop question, still... I own a Gibson SG original 2013 which i simple love. Do you know how many where made in this run?
2202.jpg
 

el84ster

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Joined
Sep 10, 2001
Messages
1,388
Hi Mat,
Back to revamping the L5s, here's list of changes I've compiled over several years of research, maybe this would help out in recreating the original vintage magic. Look how badly they screwed them up in 1970!

1951-1954 P-90s and plastic Kluson sealfast tuner buttons
1953 Metal ABR-1 bridge replaces wooden
1954-1957 Alnico Pickups
1955 2-foot bridge replaces solid foot, barrel knobs replace speed knobs
1956 Metal tuner buttons, celluloid binding replaces wood in cutout
1957 PAF pickups
Late 1957-58 Rubber grommet added to switch

1960 Florentine cut began (basically ended in 1969), pickguard screwed to top instead of pinned to side of neck
1962-1969 Solid backs replaced by ply (starting in 1965 some solid backs were used mostly in Venetian L5s), 3-piece neck replaces 2-piece
1963 transition year to CTS pots and to black with yellow interior cases
Late 1965 beginning transition to sombrero knobs, headstock angle changed from 17 to 14 degrees
1967-2012 Truss rod sheath

1970 fiberboard headstock overlay replaces wood
smaller flower pot on headstock
Volute added (ended in 1982)
Screw-on pickguard mount used replacing traditional
MOP inlay added to feet of bridge
neck set raised much higher making string tension higher
slope of top near neck changed necessitating turning neck pickup backwards to make pickup even with strings
stopped fancy truss rod cover
1976 Cherry and Black finishes added

1980 Schaller tuning machines replace Kluson Sealfast

Tailpieces
1976-1992
no varitone hole
1976-1983 silver insert
1984-1992 Black Insert
1993 silver insert
 
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Gas4LPs

Member
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May 17, 2015
Messages
72
Hey Matt, good to have you back. Any chance Gibson will make the 50's Les Paul P-90s with a burst finish?
 

matkoehler

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Sep 12, 2014
Messages
181
Mat -

how about this one .... the subject is the "Neck heel stop "
so if we look at the bottom photo notice the lower guitar - which I found on the web we see what appears to me to be a cross section thru a Historic neck and body assembly .

Notice that the bottom surface of the neck which is at a approx 15 degree angle is not completely flat but instead has a very small indexing stop which butts up against the body right near the heel . so in other words the neck can no longer move forward toward the rear of the body because it hits this small stop.

correct me if I am wrong but I believe that this is not a feature on an original 50s LP which had a completely flat bottom angled surface with no "step" cut toward the heel

could you tell me more about this feature ?
I understand what you are saying but the photo example you provided must be from an old Gibson USA guitar and the vintage example appears to have a tiny step, which is not unusual to see. But what we do at Custom Shop is the correct tenon length with a similar heel step built in to aid in neck fitting and provide more surface area contact. It is extremely subtle. Thanks for the note!
 

matkoehler

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Sep 12, 2014
Messages
181
Hey Matt, just wanted to complement Gibson on the Gibson Garage in Nashville. I stopped in a couple of weeks ago and was thoroughly impressed! I was lucky enough to have a chance to meet James Curleigh while there. It would have been nice to see a few more of the CS guitars, maybe all the finishes, and a larger display of vintage guitars? Just a thougfht, still a great stop for sure.

I was hoping to have a chance to see the new protector case that Gibson is offerring. I'm wondering about the size difference between a regulard CS case and the newer protector. I have owned both the Gen 1 and Gen 2 cases. I'm hoping it's closer in size to the Gen 1 case? Any chance you could get a couple of pictures of the current CS case and the new protector side by side? I currently gig my Skinnerburst and would like a bit better case. Maybe someone here also has bought one of these protectors and could shoot some pictures? Thanks!
Awesome! Great to hear! Yeah the Garage is like any other Gibson dealer...at the mercy of the factory capacity to get more instruments! The CS stuff is selling extremely well...good problem to have but definitely can be disappointing for fans stopping in...we are working on it! The new protector case is bigger than a regular case, and mainly the depth is the difference. It's extremely lightweight however. I do not have a protector here at the office to picture but perhaps someone from the forum here could hook us up? :) Thanks, -Mat
 

matkoehler

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Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
181
Have you guys ever made anything with the copper iridescent finish? Joe B posted a ‘55 Les Paul on Instagram recently and I really like the color. Would love to do something M2M. Would you guys be able to do that finish?
We have done it, but google "Seal Brown" instead of Copper Iridescent. Gruhn thought the first find was Seal Brown, the lap steel back color. But in fact it is Copper Iridescent. I am unsure if we still have the paint to do it, but we can probably order it again! Thanks!
 

matkoehler

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Sep 12, 2014
Messages
181
Thank you for that. Next, what kind of materials were the bridge posts and wheels made out of as well as the stop tail piece posts and threaded inserts?
This was covered earlier in the thread. Historically correct composition for each.
 

matkoehler

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Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
181
Hi Mat. Know this is not a Custom Shop question, still... I own a Gibson SG original 2013 which i simple love. Do you know how many where made in this run?
Non Custom Shop questions are OK! But this would be a good one for Customer Service if you provide them the serial number. Best, Mat
 

matkoehler

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
181
Hi Mat,
Back to revamping the L5s, here's list of changes I've compiled over several years of research, maybe this would help out in recreating the original vintage magic. Look how badly they screwed them up in 1970!

1951-1954 P-90s and plastic Kluson sealfast tuner buttons
1953 Metal ABR-1 bridge replaces wooden
1954-1957 Alnico Pickups
1955 2-foot bridge replaces solid foot, barrel knobs replace speed knobs
1956 Metal tuner buttons, celluloid binding replaces wood in cutout
1957 PAF pickups
Late 1957-58 Rubber grommet added to switch

1960 Florentine cut began (basically ended in 1969), pickguard screwed to top instead of pinned to side of neck
1962-1969 Solid backs replaced by ply (starting in 1965 some solid backs were used mostly in Venetian L5s), 3-piece neck replaces 2-piece
1963 transition year to CTS pots and to black with yellow interior cases
Late 1965 beginning transition to sombrero knobs, headstock angle changed from 17 to 14 degrees
1967-2012 Truss rod sheath

1970 fiberboard headstock overlay replaces wood
smaller flower pot on headstock
Volute added (ended in 1982)
Screw-on pickguard mount used replacing traditional
MOP inlay added to feet of bridge
neck set raised much higher making string tension higher
slope of top near neck changed necessitating turning neck pickup backwards to make pickup even with strings
stopped fancy truss rod cover
1976 Cherry and Black finishes added

1980 Schaller tuning machines replace Kluson Sealfast

Tailpieces
1976-1992
no varitone hole
1976-1983 silver insert
1984-1992 Black Insert
1993 silver insert
This is great! And way easier to follow than the archived Engineering Change Notices, haha.

One you missed -- the body profile changes slightly in the mid 1950s, specifically the cutaway shape!

Very happy that Kluson is once again manufacturing Sealfast tuners...we were dreading that element of the proper reissue.
 

stumphead

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Dec 12, 2018
Messages
398
I understand what you are saying but the photo example you provided must be from an old Gibson USA guitar and the vintage example appears to have a tiny step, which is not unusual to see. But what we do at Custom Shop is the correct tenon length with a similar heel step built in to aid in neck fitting and provide more surface area contact. It is extremely subtle. Thanks for the note!

Mat-

I guess that my point was missed .... to clarify :
if there is any stop on the neck then that becomes the point of first contact - not the bottom of the neck tenon inside the body cavity which IMHO would be a much better point of contact . Imagine a telecaster and while the strings are under tension you loosen the neck plate screws a quarter turn ..... that will drive the neck into the body under tension and create massive sustain after you tighten the screws back up ... its been proven to work .... I have done it myself . this video shows at the 24 minute mark what I am talking about... imagine no neck stop and neck is bottomed as far as it will go and held under small pressure as glue dries

now you might completely disagree but can you confirm which way the original 59s were made ? ..... sorry to beat this into the ground 🥵



 
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fakejake

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Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
1,253
Hi Mat,
What I think would be killer is an ES355 run in black with a P90 in the bridge and a staple in the neck position, like a '55 LP Custom.
Also, more 3x5s with wraparound bridges and P90s.
Cheers!
 

sws1

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Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Messages
2,663
Mat-

I guess that my point was missed .... to clarify :
if there is any stop on the neck then that becomes the point of first contact - not the bottom of the neck tenon inside the body cavity which IMHO would be a much better point of contact . Imagine a telecaster and while the strings are under tension you loosen the neck plate screws a quarter turn ..... that will drive the neck into the body under tension and create massive sustain after you tighten the screws back up ... its been proven to work .... I have done it myself . this video shows at the 24 minute mark what I am talking about... imagine no neck stop and neck is bottomed as far as it will go and held under small pressure as glue dries

now you might completely disagree but can you confirm which way the original 59s were made ? ..... sorry to beat this into the ground 🥵




My favorite part of that section you highlighted is where the speaker goes:

"At this point, the neck and body are so precisely engineered"....(looks at tech having to manually carve the tenon)
"ummmm...that only small amounts of hand work are required".
 

thin sissy

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Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,558
I understand what you are saying but the photo example you provided must be from an old Gibson USA guitar and the vintage example appears to have a tiny step, which is not unusual to see. But what we do at Custom Shop is the correct tenon length with a similar heel step built in to aid in neck fitting and provide more surface area contact. It is extremely subtle. Thanks for the note!
Back when that picture first appeared it was said that the bottom guitar was an R7, and the top a USA model (I thiiink... Is it a "rocker tenon"?). So no vintage guitar in those photos. It seems in all the repair threads I've ever seen on 50's Les Pauls they did NOT have that stop, but were completely flush. But I haven't ever seen it in reality, perhaps one of the luthiers on this forum with experience can chime in :) ?
 

sws1

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Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Messages
2,663
Back when that picture first appeared it was said that the bottom guitar was an R7, and the top a USA model (I thiiink... Is it a "rocker tenon"?). So no vintage guitar in those photos. It seems in all the repair threads I've ever seen on 50's Les Pauls they did NOT have that stop, but were completely flush. But I haven't ever seen it in reality, perhaps one of the luthiers on this forum with experience can chime in :) ?

I just did some googling. Every pic I found of a vintage neck out of the guitar did NOT have that stop.

Having a stop seems like a better idea....if I was going to design a guitar from scratch. That Fender approach of using "sheer force against bolts" just less sound than compression force.

But I just play them...not build them.
 
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