I "Rolphed" today

[NewOldCokeDave]

Well it was a exercise in sheer will and patience, but I got the Rolphs into the 335..

Let me prefaceall of this by saying, even if these pickups SUCKED, they're staying in this guitar!! I spent 4 1/2 hours gutting and then replaced the crappy Gibson pots with CTS 500Ks and the tone caps with Sprague 6PS poly-films. And of course the Rolphs!

Well I'm pleased to say that these pickups are truly amazing. I went with JM's recommended setup of the higher valued pickup (7.90K @ 70F ) in the NECK position and the lower (7.65K) in the bridge. At first before I started tweaking the adjustments of the height and polepieces, I wasn't too sure if I liked them. The didn't seem TOO exciting at first.. But after a few minutes of tweaking and setting the polepieces I got a really GREAT woody, honky tone.
String2String articulation is all there and it sounds like the chords are VERY 3-dimensional, and alive.. And the notes just sing out. It's all what EdA said and more. I would still hazard to say that the PAFs still have a slight edge over these, but not much. Night and day improvement over the 57 Classics!!

I'm going to do some more tweaking and get the tone dialed in a bit more.

What I did notice is that these pickups are very sensitive to height and pole adjustments.. I had a killer tone early on and I just had to go and mess around a bit more and it went away for a bit. Luckily I was able to dial it back in again..

The CTS pots definately helped as well, more presence and more "bite".

I also changed te wiring to the "old" 50's style wiring aand it seemd to become more "organic" sounding.

Well I'm going back to playing the guitar and enjoy these new pickups.. I'm gonna have them for a LONG time

 

[Snags]

Wiring those guitars will bring out cuss words you didn't even know you knew, and in combinations that would make even a longshoreman blush. :lolspin

 

[NewOldCokeDave]

There were quite a few "colorful" phrases emanating about the shop this afternoon.. Mostly defaming the guitar's parentage and gender!! :lolspin

Actually once I figured out how to do it "right" it pretty much all fell together.. I probably could have cut it down 4 hours and 25 minutes!!

Actually if any of you decide to take on a 335, make yourself a wiring template out of plywood with holes drilled where the pots should go, so you can stretch out the harness and just walk down the line replacing pots/caps/etc.. Made the whole exercise a LOT easier, I'd probably still be down there in the "lab" if I hadn't.... :lol1

 

[Ken]

Dave...

Glad you like them. Taking the queue from Hogy and Dewey a ways back when I was trying a bunch of different magnet configurations and not being completely satisfied with any of them, I impulsively contacted Jim Rolph and ending up '57 Rolphing my R7 GT. I continue to be blown away by how much better they sound to me than the Classic '57s and the Antiquities. (I tried all the magnet configurations as well and changed out the pots and caps.) I've got PAFs in my R9 and while my GT is inherently a brighter guitar than my R9, the only difference is that the PAFs do have a little bit more woody low-mids going on. The Rolphs seem a tad brigher (and defined) and and little less bassy but honestly, that could be more attributable to the wood than the pickups. I haven't messed with polepieces a bit. Any suggestions?

The Rolph pick-ups astound me. I've really enjoyed talking to Jim as well. For $240 a set, the price is well worth it, I think.

 

[Snags]

The luthier where I used to work had some funky bent tweezer-looking things for moving the pots around inside the body.

 

[Ken]

must be a bit like...

Working on a 335 must be a major pain...like Operation! spin

Sorry, I've been spending too much time with my kids.

 

[Snags]

Re: must be a bit like...

Sorry, I've been spending too much time with my kids.

That qualifies you to be here! :lolspin

 

[NewOldCokeDave]

I tied strings to the pots and the switch and jack, and then pulled all the guts out (I think this is a Dan Erlewine tip..) When I started to put everything back, I had tied all the strings back to the new parts and in the process I crossed all the strings up.. What I did was before I stuffed a part back into the guitar I retied the the string to that part stuffed it and the moved on to the next part, retying the strings, stuffing, etc..

It's a pain getting all the parts aligned inside without fingers, but I had a super skinny long set of needle nose pliers that made all the difference in aligning all the parts.. Then I just pulled up on the strings and all the pieces when right back into the holes!!

Ken, I set my polepieces down inside the pickup on the bridge, and a tiny bit above the cover on the neck.. I set the pickup up to about 5/64s on the bridge and about 7/64s on the neck..

I was getting a real thick sound prior to this, but at these settings I'm getting that "funk" phasey sound like a PAF now..
I usually use the Allman "standard" for the clean tone to get it where I want it..

They are a bit bright, but I think once the strings dull down a bit more, the brightness will mellow a tiny bit...

 

[Ken]

Cool Dave.

Thanks, Snags. :wail: :nono

Dave, the "marionette approach". Ingenius. Thanks for the tips on the polepieces. I'll check that setting out.

 

[roadrunner]

335's

Hey NOCD... I just got an Historic 335 and love the guitar to death.

Tying the wires together with string is a good idea... having a couple of pairs of long, bent forceps (the kind used in surgery) is a must have for less frustrating work. I don't know where you get 'em... surgical instrument supply places? I got mine from a nurse friend who gave them to me... they were gonna throw them away.

Glad you like your new pickups... might give 'em a try.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Crazy Carl]

Most headshops, er, I mean, smoking accessory shops, usually carry forceps/hemos. Don't ask me how I know that

 

[Freddy]

:lolspin :lolspin :lolspin

 

[PatentAppliedFor]

Can I expect the same sort of delicate surgery if I wanted to do the same to my '67 Guild?

 

[EdA]

Glad to hear after all that work you like the pickups. Everbody keep in mind, that Dave got the '59s, I had the '57s. Rolph says they sound different. I think he says if you had one of each the same reading, the '57 would be a little more aggessive, the '59 a little more middy. I THINK thats what he said. Id like to hear the '59s sometime.

 

[brumma]

I've been thinking about this lately--how much are other aspects of the guitar going to affect the tone of the Rolphs? I've listened to EdA's samples (which are amazing, by the way--the playing as well as the tone), and am wondering how much the differences in any guitar's wood, pots, caps, strings, setup, etc. are going to affect the tone. Or are pickups and amplifier the prime components of the tone in his samples? I mean, if I drop a set of Rolphs in my Les Paul Standard is it going to sound the same, or at least very similar? (This is, of course, not taking into account playing ability, as mine is nowhere even close to Ed's!)

 

[NewOldCokeDave]

Honestly, here are the factors as I see them:
1) Ed's fingers (and head and heart of course!!) 80%
2) guitar 10%
3) amp choice (including settings) 8%
4) additional parts changes and tweaks 2%


Some of you may have differing opinions and that's cool!!

 

[plaintop]

I have said this all along. DO NOT expect to get EDA's tone by simply buying a pair of Rolph's. Here is why. Ed has been mastering his tone for years. He has gone through countless peices to get where he is. His Murphy R9 has been hand picked (What is this the 15th one Ed?) There is obviously a connection with this one for him. It has been modified with as many 59 Les Paul parts as possible. It more than likely would blow away a lot of other historics in the materials and tone department. Finally, Ed is a GREAT player...he just is....and evertime I hear those files I just know that the tone/skill is something that has been cultivated for many years.

 

[Ed Rafalko]

Ha! Loyus Lp Copy into a Big Muff PI into a Pignose just NAILS that Ed A tone! ESPECIALLY if you let the batteries in teh Muff and Pignose wear down a little!
You guys are so silly!

 

[Tonefiend]

I can nail it with my pod into my Marantz reciever. I swear you cannot tell the difference.

 

[brumma]

I've read many other threads with people talking about something along the lines of "my LP Classic sounds brighter than your LP Classic even though everything else is the same," etc. I guess my point is that its kind of a crap shoot as to whether you're gonna be able to match someone else's tone. You may be able to get a better sounding guitar by dropping in a set of pickups, but then again you might not, right? Maybe the same set of pickups would sound too bright in my guitar.

My reasoning for bringing this up is that I've only been playing guitar for a short time and I'm just trying to learn some things from you guys with more experience. (Plus, a $240-300 experiment wouldn't go down too well with the wife.)


- dickhea... er... uh.. I mean... brumma