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Making the Gibson Les Paul Custom Shop 2021 even better!!

Morgan24

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2020
Messages
89
Any good advice on how to make the newest Les Paul even better? One thing that could be done by anyone or the Gibson custom shop is changing the ABR-1 bridge and saddles to the right specs. The saddles on the original is a lot flatter and the angle is very low at the peak compared to what the custom shop use today. This should be a cheap change for both the custom shop and others to get this correct! The same is true about the ABR-1 post and thumbweel. I dont know if the custom shop is using brass now or if they still use steel? The original ABR-1 from the late 50`s goes between 500-1000$ due to this problem. I cant believe the custom shop make this kind of mistake. Listen to this clip, the difference is unbelievable!!

Saddles Vs Bridge - Which is more important for Original Burst Les Paul Tone? - YouTube
 

Arnold M.

Active member
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
211
Any good advice on how to make the newest Les Paul even better? One thing that could be done by anyone or the Gibson custom shop is changing the ABR-1 bridge and saddles to the right specs. The saddles on the original is a lot flatter and the angle is very low at the peak compared to what the custom shop use today. This should be a cheap change for both the custom shop and others to get this correct! The same is true about the ABR-1 post and thumbweel. I dont know if the custom shop is using brass now or if they still use steel? The original ABR-1 from the late 50`s goes between 500-1000$ due to this problem. I cant believe the custom shop make this kind of mistake. Listen to this clip, the difference is unbelievable!!

Saddles Vs Bridge - Which is more important for Original Burst Les Paul Tone? - YouTube

the Custom Shop makes this kind of mistake because it is tolerated by the customers .. sales are good and they really have no financial reason to change anything .. so they don't
 

Mr. Legit

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
90
Please excuse my concern for the minutiae, and I share your concern. From a looks perspective, they can still improve certain things.

1. The Complete ABR-1 Bridge
Other than what you have mentioned, they have also attempted to get the shape of the ABR-1 right, but it is still way off, and from what I have seen, only DMC(When They Were Produced), Callaham(Right But Wrong Material), and PigTail seem to get the shape right or closer. The newer ones beginning sometime in 2017-2018 are shaved in a funny way, and I wish Gibson would have stayed with the unshaved bridges instead of coming up with what I would call a half baked solution. I once approached the company who makes the bridges for Gibson, and they claimed it would be 50 grand to redo the tooling and to copy an old one exactly.

2. ABR-1 Thumbwheels
Gibson already makes the thumbwheels of brass. However, they are smaller in diameter and thicker than the vintage pieces. Decent "thin" reproduction brass thumbwheels can be had for under $10 these days.

3. Lightweight Tailpiece
The tailpiece lacks the short seam on the bottom, and DMC, Montreux, and Discord all seem to get this right.

4. Truss Rod Cover
They also utilize the wrong screws for the truss rod covers still, and although the current truss rod cover is much better in terms of accuracy, the reproductions out there are still more accurate especially if you want to replicate the covers with roll marks.

5. Pickguard Bracket
The pickguard bracket for both the ES and Les Paul reissues are still incorrect. For example, the main piece of the ES bracket is too square. The originals are rounder edged.

6. ES Pickguards
The pickguards are installed too far from the cutaway, and they also lack the bridge gap. They are also smaller than the vintage pieces.

7. Tuner Bushings
They also utilize the wrong tuner bushings for their 50's to early 60's Reissues. The older ones are more domed.

They have the Luxe capacitors and all the electronics right, the True Historic plastics and pickup covers look great, they are utilizing the right tuners for the year of each reissue, they fixed their logo for the most part, and I think the Custom Buckers sound great. There really isn't much left for them to do other than perhaps the things above in my opinion. If they really wanted to go above and beyond I guess replicating things further like the pickups with tooling marks and such.

The current R&D leader at the Custom Shop seemed to be aware of these things when I spoke to him at NAMM last year, and so hopefully we can see these changes down the line. In my opinion, these things are an integral part at creating what Gibson would call the "vintage experience." However, Arthur may be right, not enough people care.
 

Morgan24

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2020
Messages
89
Please excuse my concern for the minutiae, and I share your concern. From a looks perspective, they can still improve certain things.

1. The Complete ABR-1 Bridge
Other than what you have mentioned, they have also attempted to get the shape of the ABR-1 right, but it is still way off, and from what I have seen, only DMC(When They Were Produced), Callaham(Right But Wrong Material), and PigTail seem to get the shape right or closer. The newer ones beginning sometime in 2017-2018 are shaved in a funny way, and I wish Gibson would have stayed with the unshaved bridges instead of coming up with what I would call a half baked solution. I once approached the company who makes the bridges for Gibson, and they claimed it would be 50 grand to redo the tooling and to copy an old one exactly.

2. ABR-1 Thumbwheels
Gibson already makes the thumbwheels of brass. However, they are smaller in diameter and thicker than the vintage pieces. Decent "thin" reproduction brass thumbwheels can be had for under $10 these days.

3. Lightweight Tailpiece
The tailpiece lacks the short seam on the bottom, and DMC, Montreux, and Discord all seem to get this right.

4. Truss Rod Cover
They also utilize the wrong screws for the truss rod covers still, and although the current truss rod cover is much better in terms of accuracy, the reproductions out there are still more accurate especially if you want to replicate the covers with roll marks.

5. Pickguard Bracket
The pickguard bracket for both the ES and Les Paul reissues are still incorrect. For example, the main piece of the ES bracket is too square. The originals are rounder edged.

6. ES Pickguards
The pickguards are installed too far from the cutaway, and they also lack the bridge gap. They are also smaller than the vintage pieces.

7. Tuner Bushings
They also utilize the wrong tuner bushings for their 50's to early 60's Reissues. The older ones are more domed.

They have the Luxe capacitors and all the electronics right, the True Historic plastics and pickup covers look great, they are utilizing the right tuners for the year of each reissue, they fixed their logo for the most part, and I think the Custom Buckers sound great. There really isn't much left for them to do other than perhaps the things above in my opinion. If they really wanted to go above and beyond I guess replicating things further like the pickups with tooling marks and such.

The current R&D leader at the Custom Shop seemed to be aware of these things when I spoke to him at NAMM last year, and so hopefully we can see these changes down the line. In my opinion, these things are an integral part at creating what Gibson would call the "vintage experience." However, Arthur may be right, not enough people care.
What about the thumbweel post? Is it also brass and is the size correct??
 

AA00475Bassman

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
3,144
If I had the guitar with all the vintage correct parts I sound just like Peter Green ??????
0zymoQa.jpg
[/IMG]
 

Mr. Legit

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
90

Is that a 2015 Reissue? I believe the posts are made of nickel plated brass. I personally would just prefer not to change anything on my Historics, and it would be great if Gibson did all those changes so that I don't have to. Its about attention to detail.

You won't sound like Peter Green, it takes more than that, you need a pure guitarist, but you can't buy that tone, but maybe you can buy the parts to help give you a shot.
 

AA00475Bassman

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
3,144
Is that a 2015 Reissue? I believe the posts are made of nickel plated brass. I personally would just prefer not to change anything on my Historics, and it would be great if Gibson did all those changes so that I don't have to. Its about attention to detail.

You won't sound like Peter Green, it takes more than that, you need a pure guitarist, but you can't buy that tone, but maybe you can buy the parts to help give you a shot.
Come on it was factious get real !
 

Morgan24

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2020
Messages
89
Is that a 2015 Reissue? I believe the posts are made of nickel plated brass. I personally would just prefer not to change anything on my Historics, and it would be great if Gibson did all those changes so that I don't have to. Its about attention to detail.

You won't sound like Peter Green, it takes more than that, you need a pure guitarist, but you can't buy that tone, but maybe you can buy the parts to help give you a shot.
It is a 2018/19 M2M of the Les Paul found on page 74 in "Beauty of the burst". I dont understand why anyone refers to the fact that you wont sound like Peter Green if you change parts on your Les Paul. I dont think anyone would say that to someone spending a lot of money on an amp!! Have you heard the clip? It sound like a broken Les Paul with the new parts compared to the vintage ABR-1. I am just looking for the best tone, not sounding like anyone!!
 

Mr. Legit

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
90
Interesting, that may be the last year for this Brown Exterior/Pink Interior Historic case with the dual neck support. They have the Lifton badge these days even on the 60's reissues now which is incredible. I think it all goes down to each specific guitar, you'll spend lots of money chasing something, but the only way to know for yourself is to buy a vintage bridge and give it a go. I have had both, and I think sometimes I felt I could hear a difference because I spent a ton of money on it which is why I am concerned with the look more.
 

El Gringo

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
3,989
If I had the guitar with all the vintage correct parts I sound just like Peter Green ??????
0zymoQa.jpg
[/IMG]
Braggart , show off . How you doing buddy ? You surviving this nightmare were in ? Oh by the way I could all the tricks off the trade and I still would only sound like myself , which is okay .
 

El Gringo

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
3,989
If I had the guitar with all the vintage correct parts I sound just like Peter Green ??????
0zymoQa.jpg
[/IMG]
Are you buying into this about the parts ? I still think it's all about the pickups and the wood and I believe the hardware that Gibson Custom uses is adequate and a lot better with the real paper in oil caps that are in the harness along with the pots . To me it is pretty close to perfection minus the Vintage PAF''s which is the missing piece . The modern Klusons tuners are way better than the vintage ones . Also if the nuts and bridge slots are cut correctly than the instrument stays in tune as it should , which is very important .
 

Guitardon

Active member
Joined
Feb 3, 2002
Messages
2,109
Please excuse my concern for the minutiae, and I share your concern. From a looks perspective, they can still improve certain things.

1. The Complete ABR-1 Bridge
Other than what you have mentioned, they have also attempted to get the shape of the ABR-1 right, but it is still way off, and from what I have seen, only DMC(When They Were Produced), Callaham(Right But Wrong Material), and PigTail seem to get the shape right or closer. The newer ones beginning sometime in 2017-2018 are shaved in a funny way, and I wish Gibson would have stayed with the unshaved bridges instead of coming up with what I would call a half baked solution. I once approached the company who makes the bridges for Gibson, and they claimed it would be 50 grand to redo the tooling and to copy an old one exactly.

2. ABR-1 Thumbwheels
Gibson already makes the thumbwheels of brass. However, they are smaller in diameter and thicker than the vintage pieces. Decent "thin" reproduction brass thumbwheels can be had for under $10 these days.

3. Lightweight Tailpiece
The tailpiece lacks the short seam on the bottom, and DMC, Montreux, and Discord all seem to get this right.

4. Truss Rod Cover
They also utilize the wrong screws for the truss rod covers still, and although the current truss rod cover is much better in terms of accuracy, the reproductions out there are still more accurate especially if you want to replicate the covers with roll marks.

5. Pickguard Bracket
The pickguard bracket for both the ES and Les Paul reissues are still incorrect. For example, the main piece of the ES bracket is too square. The originals are rounder edged.

6. ES Pickguards
The pickguards are installed too far from the cutaway, and they also lack the bridge gap. They are also smaller than the vintage pieces.

7. Tuner Bushings
They also utilize the wrong tuner bushings for their 50's to early 60's Reissues. The older ones are more domed.

They have the Luxe capacitors and all the electronics right, the True Historic plastics and pickup covers look great, they are utilizing the right tuners for the year of each reissue, they fixed their logo for the most part, and I think the Custom Buckers sound great. There really isn't much left for them to do other than perhaps the things above in my opinion. If they really wanted to go above and beyond I guess replicating things further like the pickups with tooling marks and such.

The current R&D leader at the Custom Shop seemed to be aware of these things when I spoke to him at NAMM last year, and so hopefully we can see these changes down the line. In my opinion, these things are an integral part at creating what Gibson would call the "vintage experience." However, Arthur may be right, not enough people care.

they need to do something to justify the next price increase.
 

AA00475Bassman

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
3,144
Are you buying into this about the parts ? I still think it's all about the pickups and the wood and I believe the hardware that Gibson Custom uses is adequate and a lot better with the real paper in oil caps that are in the harness along with the pots . To me it is pretty close to perfection minus the Vintage PAF''s which is the missing piece . The modern Klusons tuners are way better than the vintage ones . Also if the nuts and bridge slots are cut correctly than the instrument stays in tune as it should , which is very important .
I totally agree with your opinion EL Toro !
 
Last edited:

Red Baron

Active member
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Messages
6,675
The current specs are close enough to perfection (for me), however the finish could still use some tweaking.
 

c_wester

Active member
Joined
May 9, 2002
Messages
2,041
The sixteenth fret (or the whole fretboard placement) is way to close to the body and also the weird carve.
 

marshall1987

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,199
IMO..........

a Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul w/ a $6,000 + retail price should be constructed from the best, premium grade A+ wood stocks, especially the mahogany guitar backs and RW fingerboards. The recent examples I have seen simply don't meet the Grade A+ premium tone wood requirement. :dang
 

tonar8353

Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
490
The current specs are close enough to perfection (for me), however the finish could still use some tweaking.

That will never happen because of EPA. They are regulating the paint industry and how much Volatile Organic Compounds "VOC" they can put into a gallon of lacquer. That dramatically effects the way the product preforms. The manufactures know how to make the good old stuff, they are not allowed to.
 
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