R6 Jaeger Make Over

[Revolver1]

Yeah, so Florian could have dyed it as dark as the back for sure but the examples of dark backs I was looking at have a reasonably dark back then really dark at the heel of the neck, the neck Is then lighter than the back and then fading to a darker head stock like the back.

But the example I gave to Florian had a section at the top of the neck that looked lighter or maybe should I say a bit patchy. It looked almost as if the wood grain had grown a bit differently and so it didn't take up the dye the same as the rest of the neck.

It was all a happy accident really, I was expecting it to be the same lighter colour from the heel to the head stock but Florian tried to replicate the lighter patch and when he showed me I said don't change a thing, I absolutely love it. It looks like UV fading. It's super cool in my book and makes it really unique.

 

[ourmaninthenorth]

Hey thanks guys.

Your not going to believe it but I've done a complete 360 here going over and over it in my head to make the right choice.

I'm not against aging but at the same time I've not been really massively into it. And when I'm looking at the pictures of that beautiful finish I'm asking myself if I really want to do the aging thing to it.

I've been talking it over with Florian all morning and he says the checking of the finish is what will really take the guitar to the next level sound wise and he highly recommends it. Having talked it over he recommends a light aging, nothing over the top and still keep it very tasteful.

So that's my full 360, I've run the full gamut of emotions today I can tell you....

I'm going to take Florians advice he says it really will make all the difference. ??

I think that the 360 leads you back to your original brief, to get this guitar sounding as good as it can be.

I think Florian has done a superb paint job, but if he advises breaking that finish up somewhat to improve the sound, he really has listened to the brief and is sticking to it.

This isn't a mind change, this is an evolving process, and you've shown resolve in also sticking to the ultimate brief, despite your ( and mine!!) initial aesthetic leaning to leave it as is.

Power to you both at this specific stage, I think it's a sound ( geddit??) decision.

 

[garywright]

have him string it up un-aged and see if it’s astonishing As Is

 

[Revolver1]

Thanks for the support Ourman, I almost felt like I was letting you down there a little bit. Your a legend!

It may sound great as is, I can't imagine it wouldn't because dead spots aside it was a great sounding guitar to begin with but I'm assured it will be even better with the light aging.

I hear what your saying but I feel I need to take the advice of the man with all the expertise under his belt. He hasn't steered me wrong yet.

I genuinely know Florian loves what he does and how important it is to him that this guitar be the best possible version of itself that it can possibly be. I have faith, tasteful is the key word here and I have trust.

 

[Subliminal lanimilbuS]

I am a firm believer that guitars do get better with age. There is a lot of things involved, but for the finish I will use an extreme example. Put a little water on a piece of wood and let it sink in. Tap it with a drum stick. Keep taping it as it dries and the wood becomes more resonant. I will reiterate that is an extreme example, but relevant. Ultimately a guitar with no finish would be the best case scenario, but this creates an even worse situation as it allows moisture from your hands and the environment to sink into the wood and once again make the guitar less resonant. As well, the longevity of an unfinished guitar would be very poor. It would most likely become warped and cracked beyond use more and more as time goes by. You can oil a guitar to improve its susceptibility to the environment. Not sure how this affects the resonance, but I would have to think repeated and heavy oiling to be counterproductive. To me, as well, a guitar with just oiling doesn't have the beauty of a lacquered guitar. Guitars are meant to be played, but a Ferrari without a shiny finish just isn't the same.

 

[Revolver1]

Yes, alot of theories there I completely agree with Subliminal. I appreciate the thoughtful way you have of looking at it, but more importantly your support and kind words. I thank you, genuinely. It means alot.

Not only you subliminal but of course Ourman. I hold your opinions in high regard and your support throughout has been greatly appreciated.

I went into this whole thing very certain of what I wanted but it has almost shocked and astounded me the re-evaluation and second guessing of my own decisions. It's very different being In the drivers seat I can tell you, that's for sure.

But this is what it's really all about isn't it? When I got into this there really weren't that many threads out there really going into the finer details of the experience for me to read up on and help formulate a decision whether this was the right avenue to pursue. So I hope I can give something back and show the whole picture warts and all, yes theres self doubt and deliberation here I make no secret of this. As I've maybe slightly embarrassingly demonstrated today. But hey, I want to share this with you all....

And hey, It was nearly there but it's not over yet. Theres more to come and I'm very excited as to where its headed. ??????

 

[Cliff Gress]

Checking adds to tone? I wouldn't check it. DYI by playing.

 

[Revolver1]

Yeah, you can watch Tom Murphy talking about it on YouTube or Google up some of his interviews.

Playing a guitar won't cause the lacquer to check.

 

[Subliminal lanimilbuS]

I personally don't find any problems with aging if it is done properly. If the aging makes the neck feel more worn in and comfortable to play I am all for it. I would go with the light aging too. You've gone this far with a nice replica so why not have it look and feel the part right from the get go.

 

[Subliminal lanimilbuS]

I would assume that Florian is doing the checking horizontally if the guitar is standing. A lot of 56 guitars I have seen have the checking running vertically. Others I have seen have it going both ways. Do you know what he is doing?

 

[Revolver1]

Here's a couple of pictures I got from his web site gallery to give you an idea.

 

[Revolver1]

When you stand a couple of feet back from it you cant really see the aging, it's when you get up close you can see the detail.

 

[Revolver1]

I was talking things over with Florian this morning, about his process for aging and in particular the tonal aspect. I found it all quite interesting so I thought I should share what he had to say.

He said of course aging is a personal matter of taste but the tonal impact should not be underestimated.

Opening up the surface allows the instrument to resonate freely rather than being caged in lacquer. He went on to say there are a combination of factors involved in opening up the tone. Firstly although Gibson have now gone back to spraying relatively thin coats Florians coats of lacquer are alot thinner again.

His lacquer mix is way harder and dries out brittle as glass. He then achieves the vintage patina through several polishing steps that make the finish even thinner. And then the checking opens up the closed coverage of the finish and allows the guitar to breath and resonate more freely.

It all makes perfect sense to me. Especially when you think about companys like Fender moving away from thick Poly finishes to thin skin Nitro.

I would maybe guess as well that a 50's guitar has probably been wiped down or polished so many times in it's life this must also have some bearing on the thickness of the finish.

Interesting stuff....

 

[Revolver1]

So here we are with another step completed and looking good.

" Silk screen applied.... this is a 100% authentic scan of the fifties Les Paul logo. I was scaling the headstock of the sample picture you sent and measured the distance of the "L" (MODEL) to the under side of the Gibson logo.

As to the position between the sides (the silkscreens were all over the headstocks back then) I found a position which is quite in the middle, but a little closer to the bass strings and also looks good. The Silkscreen will be appearing slinkier after the aging-process. "

 

[Wilko]

The logo is not centered on the headstock. looks almost 3 mm to the left. The G descender will almost touch the bushing.

 

[Revolver1]

Yeah, the Gibson logo position was taken directly from the 54 in Florians workshop and the Les Paul MODEL was taken from an image I provided.

Yes, I guess its imperfect but I guess thats the key to the hand made look.

I don't mind it at all, here's the 54.

 

[Revolver1]

So this is the image of a 56 I provided. In hindsight I should have provided this and asked for it to be copied but it didn't unfold that way. When Florian asked me about the Gibson placement I said I thought the 54 looked pretty cool but I must admit my mind was on deciding the finish of the back at the time. So Florian has done exactly what I've asked for.

I guess a particular worker would have a similar theme to the placement on all the head stocks they did but I don't think this is a million miles away from something that might have come out of the factory back then.

This one is not exactly the same but not dissimilar to your old guitar (I think ).

 

[Revolver1]

Hows that.... I think its pretty close to the 54 but I guess you have to account for the fact the Historic tuner positions and head stock shape are not exactly the same but close enough for Rock 'N' Roll.

 

[latestarter]

Looks good to me - close to his 54

 

[Wilko]

Perfectly in line with what would have been from the factory, as you’ve shown. What do I know?

Great project.