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Rossington Registry Here

marasurf

New member
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
351
I used to wonder why the Rossi's were all so different although the same. Now I think thats the cool thing about them because they all have their own distinct markings.
Agree that's what makes the Ross's so cool is the fact that all of them are different and I'm not just talking about the relic'ing. The necks on my 2 Ross's are totally different and you can feel the hand carving on them. Nice to get a seal of approval from JB particularly since I just watched the Royal Albert DVD and was blown away by his tone.
 

R9Trey

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
82
I grew up with Lynyrd Skynyrd.....saw them in the Van Zant era....have never heard a Van Zant era skynyrd song that I didn't love......would love to own a Rossington some day.....or and Ed King Strat.....came close to getting a rossington two years ago......may never make it....but......I continue to dream....:)
 

francè

New member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
169
Hi Guys, just a question, in which years Ross were produced?
My Ross is strange, she has the sharp inlays that was introducted in 2003 circa, but the harness is the old one, with ceramic caps and Gibson marked pots that was common in 2002 and before...I cant understand which is the year of production.
By the way she has something special, I had 4/5 R9 murphy in the past, but this Ross has something more, is difficoult to explain, but when I play the notes has a distinctive clarity, you can hear every note of a chord, it's really a great guitar.
Now I'm waiting for Dr.V harness, I will change inlays with the retro spec ones, and i will put my 1959 long magnet paf.....Moreover i've just receive a lot of DMC parts for her!
Here's a shot taken from the shop where I bought.

<a target="_blank" href="http://upmyphoto.com/image/41824/c21bee7"><img src="http://upmyphoto.com/thumbs/FreeUploadUser/roosingiofrontbig.jpg" border="0"></a>
 

L.A.Man

Active member
Joined
Apr 13, 2003
Messages
1,141
If your guitar is a higher serial number it stands to reason it was made in 03 vs. 02. I have had four, all had the tiny ceramic caps. One noticeable difference is the tuners, somewhere around #160 (appx.) Gibson stamped their name on the back. Prior to that they were stamped schaller.

Two of the four I had were 03's, no brazilian. ( even though one of the most recent ebay listers indicates his does have bz, this is just not the case in my experience).

I wouldnt change inlays, or harness, nor pickups if the guitar already sounds good to you. You de-value the guitar, but its yours to do what ever you want . To me the more people that tinker, and change parts the better for me. An original untouched Ross will hold its value moreso than one that has parts removed, or inlays changed.

Not every Rossington is a tone monster, of the four I had, two were outstanding guitars to me. The other two were still good, but not anywhere near the level of my last two. #154 which I sold, and finally, my best sounding one #225. The top on that guitar, along with the thick mids make it standout over many other Historics that I have owned.

My attraction to these came from the level of aging that Murphy did, since duplicated on several other signature models. The lacquer fable has been met with much scrutiny on this board. If you believe that Murphy found some special sauce, then so be it. I dont feel this is the case, but who cares.

These guitars have been the subject of much controversy here on the LPF, wether its the value, the lacquer, or pump and dump. (for the record, every guitar I have, or will own in the future, is always for sale sooner or later).

Keep them stock if you can, you will appreciate it later if you ever sell.
 

marshall1987

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,270
Hi Guys, just a question, in which years Ross were produced?
My Ross is strange, she has the sharp inlays that was introducted in 2003 circa, but the harness is the old one, with ceramic caps and Gibson marked pots that was common in 2002 and before...I cant understand which is the year of production.
By the way she has something special, I had 4/5 R9 murphy in the past, but this Ross has something more, is difficoult to explain, but when I play the notes has a distinctive clarity, you can hear every note of a chord, it's really a great guitar.
Now I'm waiting for Dr.V harness, I will change inlays with the retro spec ones, and i will put my 1959 long magnet paf.....Moreover i've just receive a lot of DMC parts for her!
Here's a shot taken from the shop where I bought.

<a target="_blank" href="http://upmyphoto.com/image/41824/c21bee7"><img src="http://upmyphoto.com/thumbs/FreeUploadUser/roosingiofrontbig.jpg" border="0"></a>

I have GR 203 and it was made in 2004 according to the warranty registration card. Since Gibson made 250 GR Les Pauls, the run went through at least 2004, and perhaps into 2005.

I have heard numerous rumors about Brazilian rosewood fingerboards on a few of these guitars, and IMO there may be some truth to this, despite what Gibson claims. So answer this for me: Do you really think Gibson would acknowledge the use of undocumented Brazilian rosewood on guitars that were not spec'd and "authorized" for this controlled species? Gibson publicly acknowledges that nearly half of the Rossington SG/Les Pauls incorporated Brazilian rosewood fingerboards. One has to ask why Gibson would choose to use valuable stocks of Brazilian rosewood on the lower cost, lightly aged Rossington SG/Les Pauls, but they willingly choose not to use it on the high end Rossington '59 Les Paul Standards that feature more aggressive Murphy aging? It doesn't add up.

I have seen a couple of Rossington '59 Les Paul Standards that appeared to have......drum role....... Brazilian rosewood fingerboards. No "chiz"! I base this opinion on the clear resemblance of these undocumented Rossington fingerboards to the look and feel of the vintage Brazilian rosewood fingerboards on my 1958 Les Paul Junior SC and my 1960 ES-330 TD. I also owned a Brazilian PRS McCarty LE as well, as a reference piece. To the trained eye, I believe it's possible to determine the type/species of wood used for guitar fingerboards, necks, and bodies. For example, some folks claim to be able to distinguish between eastern hardrock maple and western maple on looks alone.
 

ufboy73

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
827
i mean this as an honest question - following your logical assetion 'why gibson would choose to use valuable stocks of Brazilian rosewood on the lower cost, lightly aged Rossington SG...'

why would Gibson choose to use valuable stocks of Brazilian rosewood without marketing and charging an associated premium for it on any guitar?

i mean, i cant believe Gibson decision makers would be such Rossington loving fans that they would say 'lets make this run REALLY special and sneak some Brazzy boards in there without telling the customers'

what is the motivation for such a thing - I dont know all the disclosure reqts, etc. - so just trying to understand why this might have happened in this way.
 

marshall1987

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,270
i mean this as an honest question - following your logical assetion 'why gibson would choose to use valuable stocks of Brazilian rosewood on the lower cost, lightly aged Rossington SG...'

why would Gibson choose to use valuable stocks of Brazilian rosewood without marketing and charging an associated premium for it on any guitar?

i mean, i cant believe Gibson decision makers would be such Rossington loving fans that they would say 'lets make this run REALLY special and sneak some Brazzy boards in there without telling the customers'

what is the motivation for such a thing - I dont know all the disclosure reqts, etc. - so just trying to understand why this might have happened in this way.

Good question........just consider this hypothetical scenario: perhaps the so-called Brazilian rosewood in question was undocumented and the proper paperwork trail could not be validated. Given that, what idiot would publicly admit to manufacturing guitars with illegal Brazilian rosewood? Also, isn't Gibson a member of the Rain Forest Alliance and held to its strict import regulations and policies? How would it look if they were suspected of circumventing the CITES regulations? I'm not saying that Gibson willingly built guitars using undocumented Brazilian rosewood. But with the volume of wood they have in inventory, pieces can be misplaced, mis-labled, or "lost" in the huge warehouse. Many factory workers handle the wood used for making guitars. People make mistakes.

So, is really that far-fetched to entertain the notion that a few custom guitar shops, cabinet and furniture makers, may have used imported hardwood in the past which was not legally obtained or documented? Would they admit it publicly? No way!

Most manufacturers of expensive musical instruments, furniture, and cabinets, take pride in their products and will go the extra mile to offer their customer a product(s) with unique features, build quality, and select wood stocks. It's a very competitive out there and companies go through hard times or close their doors all too frequently. Let me ask you this....... Have you been in a Fortune 500 corporation's Board Room lately? Pretty nice furniture, huh? I wonder where that gorgeous mahogany table came from?
 

ufboy73

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
827
Let me ask you this....... Have you been in a Fortune 500 corporation's Board Room lately? Pretty nice furniture, huh? I wonder where that gorgeous mahogany table came from?

:)

i have no doubt that they may have had undocumented wood - i just dont know whats in it for them to use it on a run, other than your giving customers something special hypothesis. in talking to some of these guys though (i.e. guys associated with developing and marketing signature runs), although they are certainly customer aware, they also are mindful of the customers who bought the other signature runs that this brazilian rosewood would NOT have been used on...if you know what i mean.

at any rate, since there is no documentation of this stuff, i guess its always going to remain in the realm of speculation - and thats cool :)
 

Steve Craw

Formerly Lefty Elmo
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
5,237
Since Rossingtons started out as R8s, I think IF there are any with brazilian boards it would be that braz was being used on R8s in 2003.
 

marshall1987

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,270
Since Rossingtons started out as R8s, I think IF there are any with brazilian boards it would be that braz was being used on R8s in 2003.

Now that makes perfect sense.

Also please consider this brief examination of the Rossington Les Paul Standards which identifies and/or touches upon some of the challenges Gibson may have faced in bringing the guitar to market: (1) Gary Rossington's approval of the limited run; (2) R/D and development of the guitar's specifications; (3) official inauguration & press release; (4) factory ordering & production; (4) hardware/pickup selection & in-house aging; (5) unique Rossington accessories; and, (6) Tom Murphy custom relic treatment /finish aging.

The Rossington Les Pauls were NOT originally spec'd for Brazilian rosewood fingerboards in the pre-release announcements at NAMM, or to the Gibson dealers and customers. Therefore, it's unlikely they would do a "180" and modify the guitar's specifications to include a limited number w/ Brazilian rosewood fingerboards in midstream. It's possible in 2002, Gibson simply could not, or would not, commit to specifying Brazilian rosewood fingerboards on a Signature guitar run that would take several years to complete. With regard to the 75 Rossington SG/Les Pauls w/ confirmed Brazilian rosewood fingerboards.......who knows why Gibson put Brazilian rosewood fingerboards on those guitars. It's a mystery to me.

Tom Murphy worked tirelessly aging the Rossington Les Paul Standards from 2002 through at least 2004. And he also undertook other Gibson aging work concurrently. He was obliged to accept the guitars that Gibson shipped to him as long as they met spec.

So let's return to the issue of no Gibson "confirmed" Brazilian rosewood on the Rossington Les Paul Standards. IMO, two to three years is a long time period for a large volume guitar factory (with limited floor space) to: (1) source adequate supplies of the specified wood species; (2) procure the wood; (3) legally import the wood; (4) inspect/grade/sort the wood; (5) kiln dry the wood; and, (6) stock adequate supplies of the correct grade and type of wood. Gibson has a history of inadvertently running short of certain parts and materials. In these instances, they would substitute parts as appropriate to keep the workers busy and the assembly line moving.

Most significantly, Gibson surely was aware of the perceived marketing issues they might encounter if their guitar catalog from 2002, ESPECIALLY 2003, or 2004 contained a significant product "overlap" with regard to limited, high-end Historic Les Paul models. It would be problematic for Gibson to market a limited Historic line of Les Pauls w/ Brazilian rosewood fingerboards in 2003, while concurrently offering an Artist model Les Paul w/ a Brazilian rosewood fingerboard. Manufacturers normally avoid internal product line competition. This may or may not be widely known, but I read somewhere that Gibson designated the Rossington Les Paul Standard an R8, despite the fact the Gary's Les Paul Standard was a 1959 model. Marketing managers did not want the Rossington Les Paul to compete with R9 sales. So they "based" the guitar on a 1958 and stamped R8 in the control cavity. Problem solved. No product overlap (at least on paper).
 

Steve Craw

Formerly Lefty Elmo
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
5,237
A conversation with Tom Murphy several years ago gave me some insight to the way things work at Gibson. He told me that when a Signature Edition guitar (like the Rossington) is first put into production, if the specs on the regular Historic line changes, like bumblebee caps for example, those changes are NOT implemented onto a Signature Edition guitar, in other words, once a Signature Edition is put into production, Gibson doesn't want to change the specs. Since the Rossington SG came into existance during the Brazilian Rosewood time period, those guitars got Braz, while the Rossington Les Pauls did not. Again, some Rossington Les Pauls might have snuck through, but it's doubtful. This also answers the question as to why Rossingtons had ceramic disc capaciters, as my #180 did.
 

guitarchitecture

New member
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
840
jammed w stock Rossington #GR235 last night-
into a 1952 Bogen Challenger CH30
(amp converted w/ paper and oil caps; copper foil filter caps;
and modified tone stack) into EVM 12L
Unbelievable sweet tone and sustain-
 

ghost driver

Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
87
Well Brazilian or not, special sause finish or not, one thing most of us agree on is that this run of Guitars are different. Special is a good way to put it. When my 024 was on display a few weeks ago at the Phily show a few people told me they thought it could be Brazilian. Bottom line is unless Gibson says they are it really doesn't matter.
 

marshall1987

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,270
Well Brazilian or not, special sause finish or not, one thing most of us agree on is that this run of Guitars are different. Special is a good way to put it. When my 024 was on display a few weeks ago at the Phily show a few people told me they thought it could be Brazilian. Bottom line is unless Gibson says they are it really doesn't matter.

Why rely exclusively on the manufacturer to certify that a particular piece of wood is genuine Brazilian rosewood? It's unlikely that they would publicly affirm this, especially if the paper trail is questionable, red flags pop up, and there is no solid documentation establishing that the wood was legally imported. Furthermore, if Gibson's original specifications did not include Brazilian rosewood fingerboards, it's unlikely they would offer it to customers after the initial release of the model. This is especially significant if they were publicly offering Brazilian rosewood fingerboards on a limited run of Historic guitars during the same time frame; i.e., 2003 Brazilian Historics. Gibson strives to avoid product-line overlap and/or redundant models whenever possible. Especially if there is a significant price differential between the similar models Lastly, one has to believe that Federal, state, and local inspectors or auditors would have a field day if they discovered undocumented Brazilian rosewood in Gibson's wood storage building(s).

In this era of precision laboratory analytical methods and qualified professionals, there are many experts that could be consulted to establish the origin and species of just about any wood product. For example, each species of wood exhibits unique structural features, physical properties, and genetic markers.

Bottom line: It is not that difficult for a professional botanist, arborist, or biologiest to positively identify a sample Brazilian rosewood. Shit, I bet Paul Reed Smith could do it!
:2fc
 
Last edited:

Steve Craw

Formerly Lefty Elmo
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
5,237
The scratch and sniff test works for me. No other variety of rosewood smells the way brazilian does.
 

guitarchitecture

New member
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
840
Merry xmas to all Rossington registry members.... and all you other guys too!
Am I imagining it or are these Rossington's getting better year by year?
 

bert

Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2002
Messages
181
these are my babys !! :)


156 on the left so I found on the tinternet!
GRand99104.jpg
 

delawaregold

Active member
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Messages
1,672


I thought it was time to resurrect this old thread, as some
new members might have pictures to post.



 
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