Slamming the tailpiece to the body 🥸

[MarcB]

Can anyone tell me what are the playing benefits of slamming the tailpiece to the body?

I ask as my newly found TH 57 has the tailpiece off the body around 1/2 cm.. and before setting up to my (ball park) taste, the strings were a little high (had 9s on too) I did lower the tailpiece a little but I’m considering slamming it.. as most of all the original LPs have a slammed tail.

I know JoeB likes his this way.. and I recall an interview him saying so.. but can’t recall why.. would this be to give the strings more of a break angle and thus tuning stability? Or does it give more tonal value ?


Any tech support on this eg the benefits of doing so would be appreciated.

Bonjour.

 

[MarcB]

It’s ok..
I found this

Thread 'Tailpiece screwed all the way down...strings touch back of bridge...am I in trouble??'

Feb 3, 2003

Hey all...

I've been reading some old posts on the merits and downfalls of the famed "wrap strings around tailpiece" mod. I don't have my strings wrapped around the tailpiece, but I DO have my tailpiece screwed all the way down onto the body of my 2001 LP Standard. I was reading that having the strings touch the back of the bridge may possibly affect my sound. I took a look at my guitar and discovered that, in fact, my 4th, 5th, and 6th strings are hitting the back of the bridge. Is this hurting my guitar physically and/or tonally? What should I do to fix this problem? Could someone...

• VintageSunburst
• Replies: 18
• Forum: Les Paul Tech Area

 

[DrewB]

I always adjust the tailpiece as low as it will go w/o the strings touching the back of the bridge body. I did the same with my Norlin and did the top-wrap thing.

 

[JASIII]

I put the tailpiece all the way down and top wrap to prevent strings touching the back of the bridge.

 

[Señor Verde]

On Historics, the tailpiece all the way down. When I had Les Paul Classics, I top wrapped because otherwise the high E strings would touch the back of the bridge.

 

[Any Name You Wish]

I don't worry about the low E touching the back of the bridge.

 

[MarcB]

Appreciate the comments.. I’ll slam it when I’m back home..

 

[mdubya]

I don't worry about the low E touching the back of the bridge.

Exactly. It is not like one will spontaneously combust if a string touches the bridge.


*******

That said, I am more interested in playability.

OP - ABR is a bridge, not a tail piece.

You are going to have problems if you think "slamming" the bridge into the body will do anything useful.

Some like to lower the tail piece as low as it will go. For me, it is for looks more than any tonal benefit.

We could go on and on about break angles and string tensions and neck relief and neck angle and nut height and so forth. Everything matters to one degree or another.

JMHO.

 

[MarcB]

Exactly. It is not like one will spontaneously combust if a string touches the bridge.


*******

That said, I am more interested in playability.

OP - ABR is a bridge, not a tail piece.

You are going to have problems if you think "slamming" the bridge into the body will do anything useful.

Some like to lower the tail piece as low as it will go. For me, it is for looks more than any tonal benefit.

We could go on and on about break angles and string tensions and neck relief neck angle and nut height and so forth. Everything matters to one degree or another.

JMHO.

Yeah i got my tail and abr mixed up..

I’ll do what @DrewB suggested and “slam it” (lol) as low as i needs it to be.. which wouldn’t be onto the body.. I was playing with ya’ll.. its just a tad too high atm.. and I’m wanting to get the overall action down a touch.. I need to do a full set up.. just done a small set up first and getting used to the playability and feel.. to see where she needs to be.. its not far off.. but a little tweak wouldn’t hurt ..

 

[charliechitlins]

The difference in tone or feel is negligible.
Just play.
The extra down force from "slammed" tailpiece can cause the bridge to tilt or to even collapse in the middle if it's one of those old garbage pot metal ones made from floor sweepings from a hood ornament factory.
I had a '71 Deluxe that collapsed the bridge by '77.

 

[MarcB]

The difference in tone or feel is negligible.
Just play.
The extra down force from "slammed" tailpiece can cause the bridge to tilt or to even collapse in the middle if it's one of those old garbage pot metal ones made from floor sweepings from a hood ornament factory.
I had a '71 Deluxe that collapsed the bridge by '77.

That’s a valid point..

 

[c_wester]

My experience says no difference.
But might be different on another guitar.

I put stainless steel posts(for the ABR-1) in one of my R8s.
And it made a huuuuge difference.
It changed the tone of the guitar.
It became brighter with more sting.

I did the same to my R7 and nothing happened.

 

[J T]

"Slamming the bridge to the body"

Are you talking about the bridge or the tailpiece? An R4 or a 54?

Assuming you are referring to the tail piece on a guitar with an ABR, basically, once again , the lower the tailpiece, the higher the downforce on the bridge saddles. Gibson spec is seventeen degrees on the strings from the bridge saddles to the front of the tailpiece. It's up to the player to decide what is good for them.

Why is this so mysterious?

 

[MarcB]

"Slamming the bridge to the body"

Are you talking about the bridge or the tailpiece? An R4 or a 54?

Assuming you are referring to the tail piece on a guitar with an ABR, basically, once again , the lower the tailpiece, the higher the downforce on the bridge saddles. Gibson spec is seventeen degrees on the strings from the bridge saddles to the front of the tailpiece. It's up to the player to decide what is good for them.

Why is this so mysterious?

I’m referencing the tailpiece.. on my 57 TH LP, as it’s a little high (looking) plus I want to lower the action a little.. so lowering this and the abr would achieve this.. and I’m talking millimetres here..

I was curious to know why people “slam the tail” to the body and what implications this has and reasons for doing this as (mentioned) JoeB mentioned in an interview he does this.. but I can’t recall why?

Plus reading the old LPF thread (above) on this.. this seems to be a bone of contention for some.. to me it’s just about playability and as you rightly said.. “it’s up to the player to decide”

Bonjour.

 

[brandtkronholm]

Can anyone tell me what are the playing benefits of slamming the bridge to the body?

I ask as my newly found TH 57 has the tailpiece off the body around 1/2 cm.. and before setting up to my (ball park) taste, the strings were a little high (had 9s on too) I did lower the tailpiece a little but I’m considering slamming it.. as most of all the original LPs have a slammed tail.

I know JoeB likes his this way.. and I recall an interview him saying so.. but can’t recall why.. would this be to give the strings more of a break angle and thus tuning stability? Or does it give more tonal value ?


Any tech support on this eg the benefits of doing so would be appreciated.

Bonjour.

With the tailpiece / bridge confusion cleared up all is well and we move forward.

I have my tailpiece all the way down BUT I top-wrap .11s on my Les Paul. If the tailpiece were up and off the body of the guitar then I might dislodge a string from its saddle with some aggressibe playing.

Of all the Les Pauls I've seen Joe B. with, it appears that he top-wraps very often. So does Duane Allman, Billy Gibbons, and many others...

Unlike JASIII (post #4) and Señor Verde (post #5) I top wrap not because the strings touch the back of the bridge.
I top wrap but because
1) I think it makes the strings feel more slinky;
2) I think it sounds better;
3) I like the way it feels; and
4) I think it looks really cool.

Some people say that a steep angle between the bridge and tailpiece makes the tone brighter, facilitates more sustain, and make the strings feel stiffer and less compliant. This is the tailpiece slammed down and the guitar is string normally.
Folks also say that a shallow angle between the bridge and tailpiece will have a mellowing affect on the tone, reduce sustain, but make the strings more compliant and slinkier. This is top wrapping.

Here's my take: the steeper the angle of the strings between the bridge and tailpiece will put more downward force on the bridge - this is a guarantee. Bending a string that has a steep angle after the bridge means you're fighting some extra downward force (in the form of friction) on the bridge. But really, how much more of a fight is it? How much of a difference can it possibly make? Maybe a little bit? Maybe I can't even tell? Maybe I imagine it?
If you've played an old mid '60s 335 with a trapeze tailpiece, then that might be a nice comparison.
It's all a matter of player preference.

(But it definitely looks cool, so you should do it. Slam that tailpiece and then top wrap!)

 

[Any Name You Wish]

Great summary Brandt.

 

[MarcB]

With the tailpiece / bridge confusion cleared up all is well and we move forward.

I have my tailpiece all the way down BUT I top-wrap .11s on my Les Paul. If the tailpiece were up and off the body of the guitar then I might dislodge a string from its saddle with some aggressibe playing.

Of all the Les Pauls I've seen Joe B. with, it appears that he top-wraps very often. So does Duane Allman, Billy Gibbons, and many others...

Unlike JASIII (post #4) and Señor Verde (post #5) I top wrap not because the strings the back of the bridge.
I top wrap but because
1) I think it makes the strings feel more slinky;
2) I think it sounds better;
3) I like the way it feels; and
4) I think it looks really cool.

Some people say that a steep angle between the bridge and tailpiece makes the tone brighter, facilitates more sustain, and make the strings feel stiffer and less compliant. This is the tailpiece slammed down and the guitar is string normally.
Folks also say that a shallow angle between the bridge and tailpiece will have a mellowing affect on the tone, reduce sustain, but make the strings more compliant and slinkier. This is top wrapping.

Here's my take: the steeper the angle of the strings between the bridge and tailpiece will put more downward force on the bridge - this is a guarantee. Bending a string that has a steep angle after the bridge means you're fighting some extra downward force (in the form of friction) on the bridge. But really, how much more of a fight is it? How much of a difference can it possibly make? Maybe a little bit? Maybe I can't even tell? Maybe I imagine it?
If you've played an old mid '60s 335 with a trapeze tailpiece, then that might be a nice comparison.
It's all a matter of player preference.

(But it definitely looks cool, so you should do it. Slam that tailpiece and then top wrap!)

Awesome reply.. and very insightful.
I’m definitely gonna give it a go.. and funny enough the part you say about it making the strings a little more taught and less ‘bendy’ will actually aid the situation as I restrung with slinky 10s and for some reason they felt more slinky in comparison to the standard 61 SG and Standard 60s I own.. which btw has its tailpiece much lower than the 57 TH..
Im away at the moment and will get on it on my return..

Bonjour.

 

[MarcB]

I assume this would be considered “too low” as this is most definitely “slammed” !
(Pics taken from a current TH 59 for sale at Emerald City Guitars)

2016 Gibson Custom Shop True Historic '59 Reissue Les Paul Standard R9

2016 Gibson True Historic Les Paul Standard R9 '59 LP Standard Reissue. The True Historics feature accurate finishes, body carves, and parts for an authentic 1959 Les Paul experience with a convincing vintage aesthetic! Excellent condition with almost no wear or evidence of handling. Set up here...

emeraldcityguitars.com

The string break angle seems ok though.. even with the stop bar resting on the seam

 

[Any Name You Wish]

"slamming the tail piece to the body" ha, took me a while but I just got it. That's funny MarcB.

 

[MarcB]

Ok.. so after landing back from LA and getting over a touch of jet lag, I woke this morning at 3am..
around 5am and pint of coffee I couldn’t wait any longer and tackled the action/abr and stopbar height..which the latter I lowered around 1mm and added a slight height difference from low E to high E (as I do with all my set ups) this was also done to the abr.
.. and here’s where I’m at (for now) ..



it’s not slammed.. because the action and feel of the strings is very close to perfect for me.. with the slinky 10s feeling much better and a little stiffer.. (next string change I’ll opt for another brand).

I was referencing my 60s Standard as this action is the most perfect I’ve ever had from Gibson (demo shop).



..Of course the pickup surrounds and bridge/stop bar (on the 60s standard) have a different fastener construction and height.. so with that in mind I tried to set the GT as close to it as possible but with the feel of the GT and low E string buzz in mind.
I’ll let this settle in and tweek (if needed) in a few days as it’s getting colder here in the UK now.

Thanks for the input from LPF members, as this gave me food for thought when setting up the GT


Bonjour