State of Pedalz - Way Too Complicated

[Amp360]

At the end of last summer, I decided to buy a new set of petals because the ones on my board are all over thirty years old at this point.

I should say I am a luddite when it comes to guitar tonez and like things to be simple. I respect people who want to change pickups (or "pups" as they're called online) and have a ton of zazoos on the floor, but for me, it's about being able to get simple sounds.

I bought a UA echo pedal because it was on sale and I have some of their outboard gear and the Ox, which I like because it's simple to use.

First impressions - there is no manual. There is some sort of folded card, which is nice but it's printed with grey letters on a black background, so it's hard to read. Also, there is a computer jack on it. I don't want to use the computer, I just want the echo. To make it worse, they took a page from later-day DOD (when they started to not sound good) and have a knob called 'wonk' - wtf is that?

The thing sounds pretty good for $75. However, I am concerned that one day it will be bricked when however it runs stops connecting to wi-fi or needs a driver or whatever. Also, there seems to be some sort of digital sequence inside or something. The LED changes colors. Sometimes it's white, sometimes it's blue, and sometimes it's red. This isn't in the manual. Maybe it's faulty. I just want an echo pedal, not a light show or computer device.

Does anyone else feel that today we have way too many choices but things are just overly complicated and not as good as they used to be?

For example, my local Guitar Center probably has thirty Stratocasters of different types but none are as well-made or have the quality of wood in the run-of-the-mill American Standard of 1990. Also, with petals it seems there are so many choices, but finding one with simple knobs and good tone seems to be very difficult. One thing I love about Gibson is they make a good American product at a good price and you play it out of the box. You don't have to change everything to make it right.

Most of my boxes are Boss followed by Ibanez, and some DOD. I also have a couple Klons I bought from Bill and a small store in Boston back in college. They all work, but sometimes switches need to be cleaned or pots get scratchy. I worry about theft due to how expensive they would be to replace if my bored were to be misplaced.

I have a Boss BE-5 that I find more than useful, but those have switch issues, too.

I tried one of those Line 6 Stomp Modelers. It was great because it modeled most of my boxes - Klon, PN-2, Slow Gear, DM-2, Fender Reverb, but it sounded fizzy to me and didn't respond in the same way - even at concert volume I felt the difference and I didn't trust the power supply. Also, it was more about a light show than sounds.

I have picked up a Maxon TS-9 and have a Maxon 808 that should be fine. I also picked up a Boss Blooze Man and Super Overdrive. I'm in the process of shooting them out right now.

Delay seems to be the tough one. I usually use a DM-2. I tried the new one, but the response is off and it doesn't sound the same. It sounds good, but the response is a little too fast.

I have this UA one, but it's too unpredictable. I also bought an Eventide Space Machine. it sounds nice, but in bypass adds some sort of sheen I can't get rid of - even in true bypass. Also, it may be the most complicated petal ever. You can go up on a preset, but not down unless you hook up more switches. It's insane. It does sound good, but for live it would be a nightmare. I have a fancy Boss one that I haven't plugged in yet, but if you buy it I think it costs $500 so I'm hoping it's good. I think it's an SDE in a petal. I have an SDE rack I still use quite a bit so maybe it will be the one.

Are there any companies besides Boss or Maxon/Ibanez (limited choices) who make good stuff? I don't want anything Dunlop for an undisclosed reason. I would prefer Made in USA by a big company, not someone in their garage or Japan.

I picked up a ton of the Gibson boxes (8) and still have to go through those.

Thank you!

</rantoff>

 

[jb_abides]

Strymon... Pricey but well-made, they run the gamut from fairly comprehensive to extremely complex.

Bunch of different delays:
- El Capistan
- Timeline
- Dig
- Volante
- Deco
- Brigadier 'Brig'

I've had the El Capistan forever and looking to take the Brig for a ride. The TimeLine is super comprehensive multi-tool, and has a looper.

Tom Bukovac swears by the Brig almost as much as he does the Nobels "No Ballz" OD. He's pretty KISS in his preferences, so that might be a match...

 

[GStone]

Also, there is a computer jack on it. I don't want to use the computer, I just want the echo. To make it worse, they took a page from later-day DOD (when they started to not sound good) and have a knob called 'wonk' - wtf is that?

^^^That sounds "wonky" to me.

Agreed, plug in, turn on, tune up and play

 

[Amp360]

Strymon... Pricey but well-made, they run the gamut from fairly comprehensive to extremely complex.

Bunch of different delays:
- El Capistan
- Timeline
- Dig
- Volante
- Deco
- Brigadier 'Brig'

I've had the El Capistan forever and looking to take the Brig for a ride. The TimeLine is super comprehensive multi-tool, and has a looper.

Tom Bukovac swears by the Brig almost as much as he does the Nobels "No Ballz" OD. He's pretty KISS in his preferences, so that might be a match...

View attachment 30200

I have heard of Strymon, but they look complicated to me. I don't mean this to sound rude because I don't mean it that way, but I know who Tom Bukovac is.Does he build pedalboards? I just want some good old-fashioned pedals that do what they say. I have the Eventide Timeline and it sounds really nice, but it's hard to back bank to a preset at home. It seems like it would be next to impossible to use live. Maybe with a MIDI footswitch it would be easier, but I don't want to go that far.

This is what I'm trying to replace:

This is the dream, but it would be too fragile!

 

[Hiwatts-n-Gibsons]

At the end of last summer, I decided to buy a new set of petals because the ones on my board are all over thirty years old at this point.

I should say I am a luddite when it comes to guitar tonez and like things to be simple. I respect people who want to change pickups (or "pups" as they're called online) and have a ton of zazoos on the floor, but for me, it's about being able to get simple sounds.

I bought a UA echo pedal because it was on sale and I have some of their outboard gear and the Ox, which I like because it's simple to use.

First impressions - there is no manual. There is some sort of folded card, which is nice but it's printed with grey letters on a black background, so it's hard to read. Also, there is a computer jack on it. I don't want to use the computer, I just want the echo. To make it worse, they took a page from later-day DOD (when they started to not sound good) and have a knob called 'wonk' - wtf is that?

The thing sounds pretty good for $75. However, I am concerned that one day it will be bricked when however it runs stops connecting to wi-fi or needs a driver or whatever. Also, there seems to be some sort of digital sequence inside or something. The LED changes colors. Sometimes it's white, sometimes it's blue, and sometimes it's red. This isn't in the manual. Maybe it's faulty. I just want an echo pedal, not a light show or computer device.

Does anyone else feel that today we have way too many choices but things are just overly complicated and not as good as they used to be?

For example, my local Guitar Center probably has thirty Stratocasters of different types but none are as well-made or have the quality of wood in the run-of-the-mill American Standard of 1990. Also, with petals it seems there are so many choices, but finding one with simple knobs and good tone seems to be very difficult. One thing I love about Gibson is they make a good American product at a good price and you play it out of the box. You don't have to change everything to make it right.

Most of my boxes are Boss followed by Ibanez, and some DOD. I also have a couple Klons I bought from Bill and a small store in Boston back in college. They all work, but sometimes switches need to be cleaned or pots get scratchy. I worry about theft due to how expensive they would be to replace if my bored were to be misplaced.

I have a Boss BE-5 that I find more than useful, but those have switch issues, too.

I tried one of those Line 6 Stomp Modelers. It was great because it modeled most of my boxes - Klon, PN-2, Slow Gear, DM-2, Fender Reverb, but it sounded fizzy to me and didn't respond in the same way - even at concert volume I felt the difference and I didn't trust the power supply. Also, it was more about a light show than sounds.

I have picked up a Maxon TS-9 and have a Maxon 808 that should be fine. I also picked up a Boss Blooze Man and Super Overdrive. I'm in the process of shooting them out right now.

Delay seems to be the tough one. I usually use a DM-2. I tried the new one, but the response is off and it doesn't sound the same. It sounds good, but the response is a little too fast.

I have this UA one, but it's too unpredictable. I also bought an Eventide Space Machine. it sounds nice, but in bypass adds some sort of sheen I can't get rid of - even in true bypass. Also, it may be the most complicated petal ever. You can go up on a preset, but not down unless you hook up more switches. It's insane. It does sound good, but for live it would be a nightmare. I have a fancy Boss one that I haven't plugged in yet, but if you buy it I think it costs $500 so I'm hoping it's good. I think it's an SDE in a petal. I have an SDE rack I still use quite a bit so maybe it will be the one.

Are there any companies besides Boss or Maxon/Ibanez (limited choices) who make good stuff? I don't want anything Dunlop for an undisclosed reason. I would prefer Made in USA by a big company, not someone in their garage or Japan.

I picked up a ton of the Gibson boxes (8) and still have to go through those.

Thank you!

</rantoff>

There is one super easy answer. Stick to old school designed analog pedals, and simpler digital boxes.

At this time I have no vintage pedals on my board, but use an awesome treble booster, fuzz, and distortion boxes. My phaser, flanger, vibe, tremolo, and delay are all amazing modern analog clones, or variants of classic effects with stellar craftsmanship, quality parts, and decades of generational improvements in noise reduction and functionality that cannot be found in most vintage effects pedals.

Can you take the crazy tweakability, and endless app menus approach that many new digital boxes provide? Sure, but you don't have to. The modern pedal market will more than happily answer your simpler needs if you search out their products, and grease their palms.

Analog Man
Mutron
Keeley
Fulltone
Old Blood Noise Endeavors
Catalinbread
Past FX
Boss
Wampler
MXR
Electro Harmonix
T-Rex
Game Changer Audio (I love their Plasma Coil Fuzz/Distortion, it has kicked some awesome fuzz and distortion pedals off my board)
There are plenty of others.

 

[Amp360]

Thanks. The big thing with that is I want something that will last a long time and is reasonably priced. I tried out some smaller companies' boxes a while back and there were either reliability issues or I found I was paying 3x the price for something out of production but nothing special.

I thought the Line 6 box was going to be a perfect solution, but the power supply I was not something I was crazy about and the quality of the product seemed low. I also didn't like having to plug it into the computer. Also, it was advertised as being able to switch an amp. It did not work with my main live amp (SLO-100). I sent it back to them and lost it for a few months and they just said it should work but wouldn't tell me how.

 

[jb_abides]

I have heard of Strymon, but they look complicated to me. I don't mean this to sound rude because I don't mean it that way, but I know who Tom Bukovac is.Does he build pedalboards? I just want some good old-fashioned pedals that do what they say. I have the Eventide Timeline and it sounds really nice, but it's hard to back bank to a preset at home. It seems like it would be next to impossible to use live. Maybe with a MIDI footswitch it would be easier, but I don't want to go that far.

Well you ruled out Dunlop... so no MXR Carbon Copy, no Way Huge Aqua Puss families, which are akin to what you were asking.

You also said 'besides' Maxon, Boss and DOD, so I didn't go there.... [Why not just go Boss DM-2w with WazaCraft?]

You could look at JHS: simple and designed in and assembled in the US, but with Asian produced boards as they do. JHS 3 Series is simple, straightforward, and inexpensive:

DELAY

Guitar Effects Pedals made in Kansas City USA.

jhspedals.info

Other than that, you have to get into smaller companies, more boutique, which are perhaps better built using better componentry, but as you said -- they may not be around to service them -- but do you really need that?

FWIW: Tom Bukovac is the most prominent Nashville session player for the past 25 years or so, but he was raised on rock not country, so he knows a vast explanse of tonality, is really tasty, and has had all sorts of gear and a pretty good ear for equipment.

Tom might also tell you seek out a vintage Electro-Harmonix Memory Man, but those are now pushing upwards towards $1k... the modern recreations probably good enough for many. New EHX delays range from ~ $100 - $300.

 

[Amp360]

duplicate.

 

[jb_abides]

Look at the Seymour Duncan Vapor Trail, used. They are out of production but hover ~ $100, more for the Deluxe.

 

[ourmaninthenorth]

I use a Hungry Robot The Wash (v2).

 

[corpse]

That sheen I believe comes from under powered warts. I don’t remember the effing physics but you need more voltage. Those Voodoo power supplies make a (easy to get but custom- another big FU) cable that does that. The sheen the goes away. At least on my DD-20- which is way too complicated. You need one that is 18v- two slots in the VL power supply- to a single pin for the pedal. Something like that. Why doesn’t it come with the right one BTFW??
Ok I am going to use a bad word here- yes again. A big eff you to pedal manufactures that put trim pots inside the pedal. WTFF??? You are not a tone genius if you need secret passageways.
I have a JHS reverb. It makes a very Fender-ee reverb and has three knobs. That is all I require.
I appreciate your rant. Nemaste’ on that one. The guitar geek in me acknowledges the guitar geek in the rest of you.

 

[Amp360]

That sheen I believe comes from under powered warts. I don’t remember the effing physics but you need more voltage. Those Voodoo power supplies make a (easy to get but custom- another big FU) cable that does that. The sheen the goes away. At least on my DD-20- which is way too complicated. You need one that is 18v- two slots in the VL power supply- to a single pin for the pedal. Something like that. Why doesn’t it come with the right one BTFW??
Ok I am going to use a bad word here- yes again. A big eff you to pedal manufactures that put trim pots inside the pedal. WTFF??? You are not a tone genius if you need secret passageways.
I have a JHS reverb. It makes a very Fender-ee reverb and has three knobs. That is all I require.
I appreciate your rant. Nemaste’ on that one. The guitar geek in me acknowledges the guitar geek in the rest of you.

That's interesting. I have a Voodoo Labs someone gave me, but I like the Sanyo rechargeable supplies because I don't have to plug them in, and it's the quietest way to go - no ground loops. I was using the included wall supply with the Eventide, so I'm surprised it's underpowered. Maybe I can find one with more amperage.

The Sanyo boxes I own work great, but they're getting up there. D'Addario has come out with a crazy expensive wireless solution, but a friend of mine is an engineer at Raytheon, and sent me a list of parts to buy to do the same thing for about $40. Once I test it I'll share with you all.

I have one of those Fender Reverb boxes, and I have to say it is the way to go. I use that thing on everything and even will plug it into my patch bay after the fact when recording. I don't use it much live because it's really old and a lot of the time I don't need reverb for the sounds live.

Boss made a copy of it that I bought right when it came out, and it was 85% there, but that last 15% bothered me so I returned it. I think they're expensive now so I should have kept it!

This is the one I have:

 

[corpse]

I did a ton of work at Raytheon in Marlboro, Andover but mostly at now defunct Sudbury.
Modeling pedals get close (line 6) until you get to stage volume- then it turns to mush. I will say it has the very best wah I ever used- but it’s built into the whole amp/pedal deal.

 

[Amp360]

I wanted to share this with you all. I got this from Boss a few years ago and I finally got around to checking it out. It's basically a carry on suitcase with a board inside!

Usually I like the plywood and aluminum ones, but I may try this out! It's really a slick design!

 

[Amp360]

I did a ton of work at Raytheon in Marlboro, Andover but mostly at now defunct Sudbury.
Modeling pedals get close (line 6) until you get to stage volume- then it turns to mush. I will say it has the very best wah I ever used- but it’s built into the whole amp/pedal deal.

That's the thing.

It's all about what you're doing, but I've concluded that I hate modern 'pure' guitar tones. Every clean sound I hear on YT sounds like it was done through a GSP-21 with all the over modulation, delay, etc. or it will be some polite version of overdrive, etc.

If I played mostly at home, I would be all modeling all the time and embrace that, but if you're doing recording or larger stages, the modelers are great at high-gain. I think I showed some pics of Metallica at Boston Calling a couple of years ago - all modeling, and they sound great.

For the slight breakup thing, it's not there yet. Plus, you're at the mercy of the person doing the modeling. I know Knopfler used modelers for a tour, but I remember hearing he had his people spending months doing the sounds. I can't say for sure, but I would be willing to bet that when he's making records, he's not using the models (maybe I'm wrong).

Many of the things I use don't have models available. I got one of those IK Boxes when they were giving them away, but it's so complicated, it's still in the box over here. I would rather use the amp.

It's like I said before, the guitar world has changed, and it's not about playing anymore. It's about collecting. The quality of the brands doesn't matter (see Gretsch, Fender, etc.) it's about having the right combination to check all the boxes off the list. There's nothing wrong with this and it's probably good for the economy. It does make it more difficult for those of us who are still playing to find things that are (1) current (2) durable and (3) readily available.

Like this is what I was saying before about having to leave things out in the rain:

This isn't my best sounding box by a million years, it's actually my third or fourth choice but it did work after sitting around in standby in the rain all day. There's not a big reason for companies to even make things that do that anymore, but back in the 1990s most of us were actually playing in smoke filled places or moving these things around all the time. Now, they build to a standard of it never moving, which is why we see a focus on fancy tolex, etc.

And honestly, as outdated as it looks, this is a pretty great sounding setup. I just am missing some knobs and the switches are not reliable enough anymore. I would take a new one of these over three or four more expensive pedals. If you stick the dummy plug into it like shown the chorus turns into a VB-1-ish vibrato.

 

[garagemonkey]

I have heard of Strymon, but they look complicated to me. I don't mean this to sound rude because I don't mean it that way, but I know who Tom Bukovac is.Does he build pedalboards? I just want some good old-fashioned pedals that do what they say. I have the Eventide Timeline and it sounds really nice, but it's hard to back bank to a preset at home. It seems like it would be next to impossible to use live. Maybe with a MIDI footswitch it would be easier, but I don't want to go that far.

This is what I'm trying to replace:

This is the dream, but it would be too fragile!

If photo A is what you're trying to replace with modern pedals my only question would be, "why"? Those are all fantastic pedals. I get they're 30 years old and you're worried about switches, etc, but you can just take them in to be serviced just like an old tube amp. Depending on where you are there may be local options for this, or there's tried-and-true places who do this: Analogman, XTS, Vertex, etc come to mind. Clean the pots, check the caps and switches, etc. The only thing I'd consider is replacing that real Klon with something like an Archer Ikon or similar since that Klon is a heavy theft magnet. Somebody might not realize a Slow Gear is going for over $400, but almost everybody knows a Klon fetches more than $10k. (by the way, you took photos of all your serial numbers, right?)

Photo B - aside from the Space Chorus, why would that be too fragile? You can get a decent chorus to sub in for it (maybe even a Boss RE-2 pedal) and again, sub out the irreplaceable Klon. The rest can be built into a good gigging board that'll stand the rigors of roadies and live gigs. Barry and gang at XTS in Nashville has done some light work for me on some gear in the past. They admittedly weren't the fastest, but it was coming out of COVID so I'm sure turnaround time may be a lot better these days and they build gigging boards for a LOT of pro musicians.

You're the one out there apparently doing it for a living so the above is just my humble personal opinion. If you really do want more modern stuff there are simplistic options. You just gotta look a little more in-depth to find them. I do like That Pedal Show on youtube. Mick and Dan do a really good job getting granular on the geeky minutia of this stuff, so if you search their videos for keywords of what you're after I'm sure it'll point you in a valuable direction. As for Strymon mentioned elsewhere, I'm a gear luddite myself and only in the past 7 or 8 years started dabbling in pedals. Back when I was playing live I relied on a JCM 800 dry / JMP-1+Carvin Tube 100 & ART Multiverb Alpha 2.0 MIDI wet setup for larger stages and for stripped down shows just a wah and Marshall Guv'Nor. That said, I don't find the Strymon stuff too terribly difficult to master. There are online manuals for these pedals and it's really easy to dial a good sound out of them. I started with a Flint on my home board to complement my tweed deluxe and you see where that took me!

 

[Amp360]

I like that FX-65! That was the first pedal I ever bought. Still one of the best ever made!

 

[Xpensive Wino]

Lovepedal.