Swapping tuners on CS R8, is it worth it?

[Scooter.84]

Hi All,

Wanted to see if anyone has swapped the Kluson tuners that come stock over to Grovers or similar machine head. I’m thinking of swapping the tuners over to Grover’s and I see that I’ll have to ream out the peg hole to fit the machine head on the headstock. In this day and age is it worth swapping over to them for functionality’s sake? IMO, they look cool as hell on les Paul’s, so I would swap them specifically for the style of them. is there anything that you all would say to deter me from making this change?

This is my first custom shop les Paul so, I wanted to see if those of you who have done this what your thoughts are!

Thanks,
Connor

 

[jb_abides]

Full disclosure, I have been OK with the Historic Reissue Klusons...

"In this day and age is it worth swapping over to them for functionality’s sake?"

My opinion to your direct question: No, they are fine and there are better functional alternatives available to original design Grover Rotomatics, in many styles.

None look the part of Grovers, to my knowledge. Anyone...???

I have yet to see drop-in 11/32" [8.5mm] alternatives with the front and back style of Grover Rotomatics with Kidney Buttons.

However, AllParts was selling a set of Kidney Button replacements although you'd have to figure out specs for the proper drop-in replacement machines you'd fit them to.

If you are dead-set on the asthetics of the Kidney Button, look to the Hipshop Vintage upgrade kit in Nickel, plus order matching 'Half Moon' = Kidney Buttons in Nickel. These won't look like Grover Rotomatics from the rear, so don't look! But they do preserve the vintage wood spec i.e. reversible.

That said, many happily ream away and don't look back. Just consider the tradeoffs, and know alternatvies do exist.

 

[Wilko]

what are you hoping to gain by changing?

Tuners don't improve tuning issues. They only make tuning smoother or change gear ratios.

 

[Happy Tree]

I've changed all the tuners on my VOS Gibsons (R6, R7, R9, 335 64, 355 59) to locking versions. Well worth it IMO.

 

[Burst_in2_flames]

Grovers are badass. The milk bottles in particular look cool as hell, and I am of the opinion that they're more stable (increased mass = less likely to be knocked out of tune by incidental contact). Jimmy Page had a well-known quote about that aspect back in the proverbial day.

 

[Patrick Ginnaty]

I grovered my R8. I'm happy that I did.

 

[bluesky636]

The stock Klusons that came on the 2014 R8 that I bought in 2016 look and work perfectly. I see no reason to change them to Grovers or any other type tuner.

 

[renderit]

Grovers work better, easier to hit the tune.

Added weight CAN add some sustain, but also make it more prone to head breaks if you are not careful.

If my Klusons work I don't change them.

If they give me trouble I do.

On milk bottles you only need to ream slightly from the back.

 

[RJLII]

My R7 LPC has Grover’s. They are very smooth and have a very low gear ratio, making sneaking up on a note really easy. They hold tune perfectly. They are excellent tuners.

My R6, R8, and ES-335 all have the Kluson style tuners. They are smooth, function just fine, and the guitars all hold tune. I like them because they’re lighter.

 

[Edward]

The stock Klusons that came on the 2014 R8 that I bought in 2016 look and work perfectly. I see no reason to change them to Grovers or any other type tuner.

The stock Klusons on my 2007 R4 worked perfectly well for these many years; zero issues or complaints.

But maybe just a couple of years ago, the D tuner was getting sloppy, like gear lash was increased and getting "right on" was becoming genuinely annoying. Solution: Gotoh machines ...perfect fit, you ream nothing, just drop in; same tuning keys with perfect color plastic; and smoooooth turning and zero gear lash, as in serious precision gears. Don't get "sold" on mere ratio; the best machines have no gear lash which defines "precise." A world better than Kluson on their best day, no exaggeration. They have lockers but I wanted lighter and retain the stock aesthetic. BTW, Gotoh has a wide variety of machines so choose the style you like best. I'd personally bypass Grover and go Gotoh all the way (which I have on four of my acoustics, they are that good).

Edward

 

[Tollywood]

I’m having some aged Grover’s put on my Slash Les Paul right now. I love how they look and how they feel.

 

[DANELECTRO]

Grovers feel very smooth when turning them, however I never have any tuning issues with Klusons so I leave them in place. I've even removed Grovers from a couple of my vintage Les Pauls because I don't like the added weight (Klusons=4.6oz, Grovers=9.4oz). I think that if Grover introduced a lightweight version diecast from aluminum or magnesium rather than zinc it would be a popular item.

 

[Dave P]

The WD Kluson branded tuners Gibson uses now look great, but are horribly made. I personally think having 1/3 of a turn of slop in the tuners is a joke. I have 70 year old vintage Klusons that hardly have any play in them. I replaced them on my R8 with similar Gotoh Kluson-style tuners which are far superior and have no slop whatsoever. Even my new R7 tuners have a lot of slop in the gears, I'll be getting some Gotohs soon...

 

[Wilko]

Gear lash (slop) has zero effect on tuning. For tuning the guitar only turning up matters. The rest is just feel.

 

[Edward]

Gear lash (slop) has zero effect on tuning. For tuning the guitar only turning up matters. The rest is just feel.

I wholly get what you're saying. But gear lash is that momentary "disconnect" between your fingers' pressure on the tuner key and that tuning post not turning. That, to me, has a lot to do with tuning.

Not a deal breaker, I know. But if given the choice between machines that have a direct and precise correlation between what you feel at the key and the string's pitch vs machines with a "dead spot" that requires one to only tune up to pitch, well, that choice is easy. For me. Smooth feel is always preferred in a tuning machine. Impeccable precision is better. Just sayin.

Edward

 

[c_wester]

One guitar will react different than the other.
Heavier tuners tend to sound a little better.


I put the the stainless steel abr posts in one R8 with a huge increase in treble.
My R7 had no change.

 

[Wilko]

requires one to only tune up to pitch, well, that choice is easy. For me. Smooth feel is always preferred in a tuning machine. Impeccable precision is better. Just sayin.

I've been in this business too long. All tuning "requires" tune UP to pitch. That's not a choice. Far too many people think the smoothness helps tuning or tuning stability. It doesn't.

 

[renderit]

I would respectfully disagree in some cases Wilko.

I have had tuners that are "notchy", almost like a nut problem in that they kinda go up and "hit the notch" and go too far.

NEVER had the problem with Grovers or Schallers and as they went on the same beast it clearly was not a nut problem.

 

[renderit]

Dooble posteses. Dammit

 

[Edward]

I've been in this business too long. All tuning "requires" tune UP to pitch. That's not a choice. Far too many people think the smoothness helps tuning or tuning stability. It doesn't.

Yeah, that's cool. I get what you're saying, of course. But for clarity, I never raised "tuning stability" as we all know that's not the tenor of this thread. Certainly, tuning up to pitch is the best practice.

Still, a smooth-turning key whose tuning post has a direct/precise correlation (because of gear precision) absolutely "helps" tuning in that one gets to pitch faster, as well as is mindlessly intuitive because pressure at the fingertips corresponds directly with what you hear. Whether a rehearsal, a gig, or just grabbin a guit for a few mins before heading out of the house, it's just quicker to pitch with better machines. If we disagree on what "helps," I'm fine with that.

Edward