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Throbak vs Stephens

J

JLH

Guest
JLH, I placed the order three days ago. He said about 35 weeks.

Calgary Flametop, I have two sets of MXVs and they both have NOS wire. I know because it was a $100 up charge at the time and I also emailed Jon Grundy to confirm they were still using it. If memory serves me right, Jon wrote me in November 2010 that they would stop using NOS soon.
O K I was close at 30 weeks
Just curious, the fact you paid 100 dollars make it real or ????
Does the NOS wire come with some type of notarized certificate of authenticity or real proof? Been there done that with another winder to discover it was simply a hoax. what is NOS wire?
 

Cygnus X1

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
363
Great thing about Dave is he communicates very clearly (read...passionately) and knows the history very well.
I recommend him highly but at the same time I've never tried the Throbaks yet.
 
R

R9.

Guest
O K I was close at 30 weeksJust curious, the fact you paid 100 dollars make it real or ????
Does the NOS wire come with some type of notarized certificate of authenticity or real proof? Been there done that with another winder to discover it was simply a hoax. what is NOS wire
Make it real in what sense?
New Old Stock wire. Throbak has/had a stash of left over '50s plain enamel wire that they would use on new winds for an extra $100. I believe they still have some but only use it for vintage rewinds. I can't say if the NOS wire makes the pickups sound any different/better but it's cool knowing that it is the same wire Gibson used 50 years ago.

There is no way it's a hoax and I know that for a fact because Jon even wrote me that there is no audible difference. I could see it being a hoax if he claimed the NOS stuff would make me sound like Clapton or Page. It's merely nostalgia and he was honest about it right from the beginning.

I'm assuming the "Wire Lot" indicates they have the NOS wire.

6628eb70.jpg
 
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jwalker

Les Paul Forum Sponsor
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
2,581
O K I was close at 30 weeks
Just curious, the fact you paid 100 dollars make it real or ????
Does the NOS wire come with some type of notarized certificate of authenticity or real proof? Been there done that with another winder to discover it was simply a hoax. what is NOS wire?

Since this concerns me directly and my business. A business I work very hard at, that feeds me, my wife, my three grade school aged children and feeds my two full time employees I think you should elaborate... This is not a hobby for me. I take my customers and what I make very seriously. Please email me if you have questions about my products rather than imply or infer something negative. That would be the decent thing to do. Can you tell I'm being nice?

JLH I'll make you a deal and I am totally serious about this. I took delivery last week of a historically significant vintage winding machine that would make Dave Stephens and just about any other P.A.F. loving pickup maker shit their pants (yes, right now it is super secret). I bought the machine from a man liquidating a business that also has hundreds of pounds of NOS magnet wire that he is right now trying to sell. As of last week none is 42AWG PE but he does not know everything he has so I'm keeping my fingers crossed he may find some. But I will send you pictures of the machine I purchased and give you the name and telephone number of the business that sold me the machine and is right now selling NOS magnet wire so you can prove to yourself that I'm on the up and up. The conditions are you verify my claim by making the call and then post here to confirm I am telling the truth. The other condition is you give zero info about this to anyone else. Not any other pickup makers, your wife or your dog, nobody. The truth is NOS magnet wire and old machines crop up like this but I would be a total fool to give many specifics about it because frankly I would totally blow the advantages I have in finding them. But for you I will make this one exception. So email me with your phone number. I would like to talk with you on the phone before we do the deal. If you are okay with it then I will give you the name of the business so you can call them. Then I will forward pictures of the machine. I look forward to your email.

Just so people know ThroBak wire lots now begin with a letter like A0025, A0026, A0027... The letter prefix (A, B, C) indicates newer wire (not NOS wire). If you have wire lots that begin with a number like these 50026 and 50027 lots then you have NOS wire. In fact there are actually a few people that still got the NOS wire after I discontinued it. Why, because the spools don't all run out in lock step and I keep track of the wire on each bobbin. So frankly some people got a bonus of NOS wire after I took it off the site. But again just so people know if your card does not have a wire lot that begins with a number like 5 rather than a letter like then you have NOS wire.

BTW R9 the Slug 101 winder came from the old Gibson plant but I never have claimed the NOS wire came from the old Gibson plant. That is not where the NOS wire came from. However there was 44AWG NOS magnet wire at the old Gibson plant when I was last there, but I don't want it because it is not what was used for P.A.F.'s.
 
R

R9.

Guest
Gotcha. I read somewhere that's where the wire came from.
See, your pickups have already gained mythical status. :)
 

Dub'n 57 Goldtop

New member
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
532
Oh Jon, you make me laugh. Like a part of Obama's getting elected, the guy can talk.

Not knockin your product, btw

RLH I'll make you a deal and I am totally serious about this. I took delivery last week of a historically significant vintage winding machine that would make Dave Stephens and just about any other P.A.F. loving pickup maker shit their pants (yes, right now it is super secret).

Hahahahahaahah, like this quote above, makes me laaaaugh. Dave built his winder with less than $200 worth of cheap parts. x)
 

BrazenPicker

New member
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
28
Why is it funny? If you run a business, this stuff that gets thrown out on the internet matters, so you have to defend yourself. Personally I'm sick and tired of the little digs against Throbak.
 
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Dub'n 57 Goldtop

New member
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
532
I understand him defending himself, nothing wrong with that. I'm simply doing the same for Dave, cause he deserves it. That's all.

Oh and it's funny because I know things you don't.
 

BrazenPicker

New member
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
28
I agree Jon is pretty slick and a good marketer, but hey, good for him. If you're selling a product, that's what you gotta do and most of us here will do our own research, that's part of the fun. Maybe he talks big but he also delivers and his service is second to none. Which of the two is more dedicated or passionate about PAF replication is a bit like politicians nowadays competing on who's most Christian-- I can do without that stuff. And in his own way I think Dave is also a pretty savvy marketer, with that crazy scientist aura. Nothing against the guy either, by the way, I think he's a treasure to the pickup world. There's space for more than 1 great winder (and I love my Wizz, Zhangbuckers, Greco Dry-Z's, etc. too).

PS: if you have time on your hands (and isn't that why we're here?), for entertainment, dig through Jon's first posts on the other forum, and the nice welcome he got there (that's sarcasm). It wasn't long before he got banned and that other winder who's now a wanted fugitive was held up as an example of how it's supposed to be done. My point is he's always attracted vehement criticism, but the number of satisfied users out there is not something that just falls on your lap, so credit to the man.
 
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jwalker

Les Paul Forum Sponsor
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
2,581
Oh Jon, you make me laugh. Like a part of Obama's getting elected, the guy can talk.

Not knockin your product, btw



Hahahahahaahah, like this quote above, makes me laaaaugh. Dave built his winder with less than $200 worth of cheap parts. x)

What makes you think I spent a lot of money? Just for the record Dave emailed me he dreamed he had bought my Leesona 102 after I got it. He said it was probably best he didn't though because he had no room for it. At the time I thought it was a nice complement on a job well done in getting a Leesona 102 and to put it to work making P.A.F. repros. The machines I have are a good fit for me but clearly not must haves for a pickup maker like Dave. I totally understand that.

JLH, The offer still stands.

Oh and it's funny because I know things you don't.

What is this supposed to mean? Again please elaborate or better yet don't post nonsense. I think it is clear I'm an open book as much as I can be. But if people start making crap up I think I should address it.

Why not just keep the thread on topic and hold it to facts and opinions about comparing pickups? As long as facts are discussed I won't have to correct any factual errors and I will never post on this thread again unless asked to do so.
 

efk

Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
519
Sheesh. (Throws up hands.)




Tastes great.


Less filling.


Tastes great.


Less filling.


:dh
 
J

JLH

Guest
O.K. for the record, My intention was not questioning Jon/ Throbacks integrity in any way. My question concerning NOS wire was due to a past experience many had with another winder making claims about some NOS wire he had and was using in upscale, high end pickups. Hence my point about documentation. I am in a business where documentation is required and audits are done to back it up, so things are not always as there appear!
Jon and I have had a discussion, from that, there (documentation provided by Throback) is nothing that suggests any misrepresentation.
I am posting this because, It was never my intention to suggest there was, just asking for documentation, I asked for it, I got it from the source.
 

jwalker

Les Paul Forum Sponsor
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
2,581
O.K. for the record, My intention was not questioning Jon/ Throbacks integrity in any way. My question concerning NOS wire was due to a past experience many had with another winder making claims about some NOS wire he had and was using in upscale, high end pickups. Hence my point about documentation. I am in a business where documentation is required and audits are done to back it up, so things are not always as there appear!
Jon and I have had a discussion, from that, there (documentation provided by Throback) is nothing that suggests any misrepresentation.
I am posting this because, It was never my intention to suggest there was, just asking for documentation, I asked for it, I got it from the source.

Thanks JLH. I appreciate the clarification and the post.
 

Triburst

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
4,347
I just checked the certs for my SLE101+MXV set, and sure enough -- 50026 and 50027 -- I hit the NOS wire lottery and didn't even know it until today.

Thank you, Jon -- these pickups sound great in my '09 R9, especially now that I've got the pot values above 500.
 

Dub'n 57 Goldtop

New member
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
532
What is this supposed to mean? Again please elaborate or better yet don't post nonsense.

I've taken up things you've said about Dave with him via email to see what he had to say. He has told me several things, things that I was surprised he shared with me. I so want to post it, and I would, were it not for Dave asking me not too - as the way he lays the facts on the table via email.. it could very possibly come off quite offensive to certain individuals - so I respect his wishes, and defend his name when it is slandered, as he cannot do it himself.

Again Jon, I'm not bashing your product, it is a fine one, a major stepping stone into PAF bliss.

And I'm all about keeping it on topic, so how bout a top winder doesn't come bashing another top winder who can't comment on the matter, cool?
 

jwalker

Les Paul Forum Sponsor
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
2,581
I've taken up things you've said about Dave with him via email to see what he had to say. He has told me several things, things that I was surprised he shared with me. I so want to post it, and I would, were it not for Dave asking me not too - as the way he lays the facts on the table via email.. it could very possibly come off quite offensive to certain individuals - so I respect his wishes, and defend his name when it is slandered, as he cannot do it himself.

Well that is convenient isn't it? Convenient and well... just plain creepy. When you consider I only ever spoke with Dave on the phone once ever and it was about cover pole screw spacing. Well I think it must have been a much more intimate experience for him than me. Clearly you know Dave way better than me which is a relief. We are still talking about guitar pickups right? :wah

If I have made factual error I'm happy to correct it. Honestly I'm really only concerned about facts. Beyond the facts I actually thought I was defending Dave by explaining his wait time was reasonable if he has a large volume of orders since he is just one guy running the entire show.

Why is it that Dave can't post on this forum? Was he kicked off? If he was I'm all for him being back on. If he never was on the LPF I'm all for Dave being on the LPF. The concept and implementation has my full endorsement! I will now leave.:hippy
 

efk

Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
519
You know, anyone here can get a very frank insight into Mr. Stephens development as a PAF "magician" simply by visiting the Pickup Makers' forum and examining all of his many postings beginning back ca. 2004-2006 (iirc - don't hold me to that period exactly).

Mr. Gundry, I don't know you but I do applaud the manner in which you have conducted yourself and your business across the slippery slope of multiple forums.
 

1970goldielux

New member
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
65
Just so people know ThroBak wire lots now begin with a letter like A0025, A0026, A0027... The letter prefix (A, B, C) indicates newer wire (not NOS wire). If you have wire lots that begin with a number like these 50026 and 50027 lots then you have NOS wire. In fact there are actually a few people that still got the NOS wire after I discontinued it. Why, because the spools don't all run out in lock step and I keep track of the wire on each bobbin. So frankly some people got a bonus of NOS wire after I took it off the site. But again just so people know if your card does not have a wire lot that begins with a number like 5 rather than a letter like then you have NOS wire.

Interesting. These are mine. What lot number does this indicate? Is it NOS or newer? (BTW - I bought these used and contacted Jon about installation, he treated me like an old customer. Very nice.)

DSC_0049-1.jpg
 

Brian H

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
719
Just another quick comment on Jon's service. Always prompt response to emails, ordered a set of pickups last week and had them the same week.
 

Dub'n 57 Goldtop

New member
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
532
Well that is convenient isn't it? Convenient and well... just plain creepy. When you consider I only ever spoke with Dave on the phone once ever and it was about cover pole screw spacing. Well I think it must have been a much more intimate experience for him than me. Clearly you know Dave way better than me which is a relief. We are still talking about guitar pickups right? :wah

If I have made factual error I'm happy to correct it. Honestly I'm really only concerned about facts. Beyond the facts I actually thought I was defending Dave by explaining his wait time was reasonable if he has a large volume of orders since he is just one guy running the entire show.

Why is it that Dave can't post on this forum? Was he kicked off? If he was I'm all for him being back on. If he never was on the LPF I'm all for Dave being on the LPF. The concept and implementation has my full endorsement! I will now leave.:hippy

Yeah, I know your guys history... you just love to spin things off! It's sad. And this comment of yours sets in stone the possibility -now fact- of you being a second place shmuck, with a fine product. Good day

:hippy
 
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