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Valuable information to consider when evaluating the authenticity of a vintage burst

Zapper

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Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
286
MODERATOR'S NOTE: This thread started out as an inquiry from a Forum member regarding what he thought was a player's grade real burst. As the thread evolved, it turned into a very informative thread concerning what to look for when trying to authenticate a guitar you believe to be an original burst.


Hey guys, I wonder if anyone might be able to help me restoring an old 1960 players grade 'Burst I bought recently from a mate. Even though it already plays and sounds great, I think I owe it to the 'ol girl to tart her up a bit!

The good news is that the sunburst finish is original... but that's about it LOL.! As you can see from the pics below, the pickups have been changed (to a DiMarzio SD at the bridge, and 1979 Gibson at the neck), as have the machines (to Grovers). Other changes include jack plate, all 4 pots (to 1970s), capacitors, switch tip and nut.

The bridge, tailpiece and pickup surrounds though I think are original.

My thoughts at the moment are to change the bits you can see, or that affect the sound of the guitar (eg the capacitors). The pots work perfectly so seems silly to change them - the body has been carved about a bit in the past to fit bigger pickups so it will never be a 'collectors' grade guitar.

I've attached some photos below, but as a restoration novice I'd be really grateful for any tips or advice from some of you guys who actually know what you're talking about! Similarly, if anyone has any relevant parts for sale please let me know!

Thanks very much! :)
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60fk1.jpg 60fk2.jpg 60fk.jpg 60fk3.jpg



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Zapper

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Mar 31, 2020
Messages
286
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Here are some pics.... Thinking about replacing the capacitors for some original (or reissue?) bumble bees, but will probably leave the 1970s pots as they all work ok. Any views? :)


91805257_2989131651108208_1904160612376641536_n.jpg


130866347_3678792072142159_3445688516790997251_n.jpg


130488096_3678792065475493_196976973669641231_n.jpg


130876645_3678792158808817_3360582031344037111_n.jpg



91928076_2992375317450508_6040665785775423488_n.jpg

92153197_2992374934117213_1086132671504973824_n.jpg

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60fk4.jpg LP60 sn.jpg
 
Last edited:

marfen

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Jan 19, 2016
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Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Maybe purchase a 1960 ES organ donor ...that suffered a neck break or refin...but has the correct parts you need.
 

jrgtr42

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Mar 24, 2005
Messages
1,953
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Personally I would look into the electronics first.
Definitely the caps - go reissue, rather than original; you don't know if they are any good anymore.
Pots are a maybe. If they work fine and have a good sweep, leave them for now - or I know Stew Mac has a kit with vintage - spec posts, caps etc.
Definitely the pickups. I don't know if it's worth buying a set of real PAFs (your decision to make) but with all the boutique makers out there, you can certainly find something to match PAFs.
I'm personally not a huge fan of buying a less-desirable to you guitar as a donor - someone else would like that one as is, but it's something that's done all the time, and again, your decision to make (I can dispose of the husk if you want - just send it on over... ;) )
 

Rich R

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Jun 4, 2002
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Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Whatever you do, LEAVE THE FINISH ALONE!!!
 

goldtop0

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Aug 19, 2003
Messages
8,044
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

What a great score and a cali girl case:salude
If it was mine I'd get a pair of '60 PAFs and harness.
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
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42,567

58burst

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May 11, 2002
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Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Oversized tuner bushings are available so you can restore to klusons without woodwork if the holes arent too buggered, they look and sound ok. To my ears the old pots and caps have a sound, i definitely noticed a difference when i restored to original pots in my 58. The old caps too- personally i can hear it, even if theyre a bit out of spec they have “that” sound-
 

Zapper

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Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
286
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Maybe purchase a 1960 ES organ donor ...that suffered a neck break or refin...but has the correct parts you need.

Yep, good idea but I reckon they'll be few and far between unfortunately...
 

Zapper

Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
286
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Personally I would look into the electronics first.
Definitely the caps - go reissue, rather than original; you don't know if they are any good anymore.
Pots are a maybe. If they work fine and have a good sweep, leave them for now - or I know Stew Mac has a kit with vintage - spec posts, caps etc.
Definitely the pickups. I don't know if it's worth buying a set of real PAFs (your decision to make) but with all the boutique makers out there, you can certainly find something to match PAFs.
I'm personally not a huge fan of buying a less-desirable to you guitar as a donor - someone else would like that one as is, but it's something that's done all the time, and again, your decision to make (I can dispose of the husk if you want - just send it on over... ;) )

LOL .. yeah right jrgtr...! :spabout After all, I won't be needing the worthless body or neck once stripped will I...! :##

Reckon I'll keep the pots as they work perfectly but am defo looking for some decent original PAFs in keeping with the guitar. Thought about some boutique replicas (eg Wizz, which are apparently very good) but can't beat the real thing. Also, I think I've found some original working bumble bees so I'll give them a go first before buying re-issues...

Thanks for your help!
 

Zapper

Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
286
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Whatever you do, LEAVE THE FINISH ALONE!!!

DEFINITELY!! Can't believe that people would actually refinish one of these, no matter how bad the original!!
 

Zapper

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Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
286
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

What a great score and a cali girl case:salude
If it was mine I'd get a pair of '60 PAFs and harness.

Yeah, really pleased with the case too.. It's a 5 latch Lifton in good nick.

Defo agree about the PAFs, but would a harness really make any difference? More than say some pots?
Cheers!

91821817_2993510917336948_8083771437740982272_o.jpg
 

Zapper

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Mar 31, 2020
Messages
286
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Your guitar was built before these keys were used. Should have single ring Klusons, not double ring. :)

Thanks Tom. Yes, I've been wondering about that... The Iwanade book reckons they were single ring until "early 1960" after which the double ring was added (below, page 208). The Kluson website though says the doubles were "used from 1961 to 1969" so I guess you pays yer money and takes yer choice..! :)

91540005_2993521594002547_3952782780466724864_o.jpg
 

Zapper

Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
286
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Oversized tuner bushings are available so you can restore to klusons without woodwork if the holes arent too buggered, they look and sound ok. To my ears the old pots and caps have a sound, i definitely noticed a difference when i restored to original pots in my 58. The old caps too- personally i can hear it, even if theyre a bit out of spec they have “that” sound-

Thanks 58burst. Fortunately I doubt I'd be able to tell the difference as my ears are so shot after playing in rock bands for nearly 45 years..! If I come across some old pots for a reasonable price though I'd probably have them anyway for completeness sake...
Cheers!
 

Tom Wittrock

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Messages
42,567
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Thanks Tom. Yes, I've been wondering about that... The Iwanade book reckons they were single ring until "early 1960" after which the double ring was added (below, page 208). The Kluson website though says the doubles were "used from 1961 to 1969" so I guess you pays yer money and takes yer choice..! :)

91540005_2993521594002547_3952782780466724864_o.jpg

Yas' book is about 30 years old, and we know far more about this kind of minutia now.
The change was more mid to late 1960.
Considering Bursts [since other models had them too] my 60 is 0-7448 and is still single ring. It seems by 0-8000 they were commonly double ring.
There are threads here in this section that delve into this.
:)
 

marshall1987

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Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,199
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Before getting too far along with expensive PAFs and other vintage parts, I would have a skilled guitar restoration expert repair any damaged wood in the body. It appears a previous owner modified the guitar by making unspeakable router cuts to the pickup cavities and the output jack channel. Take care of the body issues first, then go for the icing.
 
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sws1

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Dec 4, 2001
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Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Has the headstock been repaired?
 
Joined
Apr 22, 2017
Messages
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Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Yas' book is about 30 years old, and we know far more about this kind of minutia now.
The change was more mid to late 1960.
Considering Bursts [since other models had them too] my 60 is 0-7448 and is still single ring. It seems by 0-8000 they were commonly double ring.
There are threads here in this section that delve into this.
:)

0-8065 here...double ringer.

I've been looking at those tuners and wondering if you can tell if they've been re-buttoned? They look really white/clean! Mine are yellowed.
 

Zapper

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Mar 31, 2020
Messages
286
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Tom, thanks for your help. Presumably then, as mine is only 0 2000, it would have been made earlier in 1960. I'll keep an eye out for some single rings then (although the ones I've seen so far are all knackered..!).

Marshall 1987, yes I've been wondering what to do about the butchery in the pickup cavities...! Tempted to leave them at the moment, as they're part of the DiMarzioed history of the guitar.. Unless of course I can find a wizard woodworker..!

sws1, no as far as I can tell the headstock shows no sign of repair... And having broken a couple over the years I can usually recognise one..! :)

Trainkeptarolling, I asked the seller that specific question and "as far as they are aware" they are originals... Clearly not though, but maybe a decade or so old?

Thanks all!
Ian
 
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