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what do you think of weight-relieved Les Pauls

El Gringo

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,263
To those that doubt the difference in tone of weight relief versus solidbody I guess you haven't played both and know the actual difference as there surely is a big difference . Believe it or not !
 

mdubya

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Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
914
If there is a difference beyond all of the other virtually infinite variables between any two guitars, it is not necessarily for the better or for the worse.

I can make my solid body LPs sound like airy, breathy hollowbodies and can get killer snarling P-90 tones out of my ES 330 that no one would expect out of a 6 lb hollowbody.

If you feel your tone is inadequate, look to Jack Pearson.

Most could not produce Jack's tone out of a priceless burst or a $200 MIC Squier.

As long as the guitar is playable to your liking, you are not going to have inadequate tone out of any guitar. The limiting factor will be you.

I also believe something like authentic blues tone is more likely to come from a bolt neck Memphis brand LP than from a burst or any expensive guitar.
 

bobalu

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Messages
71
It's not just purely profits, wood availability and species density are factors too. Old growth hard to come by, and lighter woods that are procured are used for historic reissues, etc.
Fender and PRS et al don't seem to have a problem sourcing wood. Gibson is profit above all else, and it shows in their product. You have to hand pick a Gibson to try and find a good one. (and strangely, they seem just fine with that).:rolleyes:
 

El Gringo

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Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,263
If there is a difference beyond all of the other virtually infinite variables between any two guitars, it is not necessarily for the better or for the worse.

I can make my solid body LPs sound like airy, breathy hollowbodies and can get killer snarling P-90 tones out of my ES 330 that no one would expect out of a 6 lb hollowbody.

If you feel your tone is inadequate, look to Jack Pearson.

Most could not produce Jack's tone out of a priceless burst or a $200 MIC Squier.

As long as the guitar is playable to your liking, you are not going to have inadequate tone out of any guitar. The limiting factor will be you.

I also believe something like authentic blues tone is more likely to come from a bolt neck Memphis brand LP than from a burst or any expensive guitar
 

jb_abides

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Apr 6, 2005
Messages
3,311
Fender and PRS et al don't seem to have a problem sourcing wood. Gibson is profit above all else, and it shows in their product. You have to hand pick a Gibson to try and find a good one. (and strangely, they seem just fine with that).:rolleyes:

Actually they do. Fender announced a restriction on production Ash. Fender is not a huge user of mahogany, which is what we are talking about here, by deduction. PRS sources fewer board-feet, at a premium, of mahogany, compared to Gibson's total US + Custom production, not to mention Epi's hog which is part of the overall corporate sourcing.

QC of Gibson vs PRS is another matter...
 

RJLII

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Joined
Jul 1, 2009
Messages
327
I played a chambered R8 at Wildwood years ago. It was sub seven pounds as I recall. It sounded great and I would have been pleased to own it.
 

Demon Dave

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Nov 24, 2019
Messages
12
I love my weight relieved 2019 Classic, more than every LP I’ve had before, my 2 cents
 

56lp

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Dec 2, 2021
Messages
5
I have had a couple of Gibson BFG Les Pauls, that were weight relieved. They both sounded real good.
 

El Gringo

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Apr 8, 2015
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5,263
I have an appreciation for solid Body Les Paul's as that's what I played into 1994 when I got My 1994 Les Paul Premium Plus Classic . So I was playing thru Fender amps at the time and the first thing I did was replace the ceramic magnet factory 496r and 500t pickups with Gibson 57 Classic and 57 Classic + pickups for the bridge which worked fine until 2015 when I switched to Marshall 2555X's with 2551AV cabs with Vintage 30 speakers . So then the proverbial wet blanket effect and the unpleasant nasal like tone surfaced which I hated and promptly switched to ThroBak 101 Plus pickups . The tone was very nasty and nasal and very in my face after I switched the wiring harness from the dead sounding 250k stock pots and caps to a 500k pots and caps . Now it was pronounced and noticeable with the harsh and nasal tone and then I switched to 300k pots and caps and this did the trick and made it a workable guitar in spite of the factory weight relief which I believe is the 9 hole variety . This instrument now is closer to my historic R 9 and R 8 guitars tone , not exactly a match but it's in the same ball park . Trial and error to save my second Gibson Les Paul ( I don't play it that much but it is ready to go at a seconds notice as it is maintained by my fabulous tech thru whom none of this is ever possible (God Bless My Tech !!!!!!!!!!!!) 5-15-21 (2) - Copy.jpg
 
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dju

Member
Joined
May 7, 2004
Messages
133
I have several chambered LP's that I like a lot for the reduced weight. both a CR8 and US standard (07), Classic (07) and deluxe (11 or 12?).
they sound pretty good. but i might have to switch back to the original pickups on some of them as I seem to recall liking them better with them.
I also have several solid bodied LP's that have plenty of weight. I had a gorgeous 2012 LP traditional that I had refinished to look like Billy G's Pearly gates.
I loved everything about that guitar except for the weight. I sold it to a friend who loves it.
they all sound different to some degree whether acoustically or plugged in. that's the nature of the sum of all the parts.
I'd love to try one of the featherweight (~8 lbs) solid body R9's to compare.
i have a few marshall amps of the same model. they all sound differently as well.
and depending on the weather they all change how they sound as well. not sure why but they do.

play what feels comfortable to you and sounds good to you as well.
enjoy!
 

bobalu

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Messages
71
Personally, I think a Les Paul should be heavy; that's part of the beauty of them. I understand that holding up a heavy guitar for a whole set is tough, but it's part of the job - if rocking out was easy, everyone would do it, and it wouldn't be awesome anymore.
Weight relief should have been done from the very beginning. IMO, wearing a chunk of lead weight around your neck did almost as much to push people away from Les Pauls as Gibsons decline in quality. Love my lightweight LP's though.
 

AA00475Bassman

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
3,463
The
If there is a difference beyond all of the other virtually infinite variables between any two guitars, it is not necessarily for the better or for the worse.

I can make my solid body LPs sound like airy, breathy hollowbodies and can get killer snarling P-90 tones out of my ES 330 that no one would expect out of a 6 lb hollowbody.

If you feel your tone is inadequate, look to Jack Pearson.

Most could not produce Jack's tone out of a priceless burst or a $200 MIC Squier.

As long as the guitar is playable to your liking, you are not going to have inadequate tone out of any guitar. The limiting factor will be you.

I also believe something like authentic blues tone is more likely to come from a bolt neck Memphis brand LP than from a burst or any expensive guitar.
Everyone would should read this before they join this forum ! - I have listen to terrible things Tone , sound embarrassing to hear vintage demonstrations .

This copied post IMO is the post of 2021 you nailed It Thank for the words I've been searching for mdubya
 
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bobalu

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Messages
71
It's not just purely profits, wood availability and species density are factors too. Old growth hard to come by, and lighter woods that are procured are used for historic reissues, etc.
PRS, Yamaha and Ibanez don't seem to have a problem.............. Just sayin' ;):)
 

Reddart

Active member
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Messages
239
I did a back of the envelope estimate on the weight reduction of the traditional 9 hole weight reduction….assuming 1”diameter and 1.5” deep, and the average Honduran mahogany density, it would remove about 1/4 lb (or 4 oz)….not a huge difference. I guess a heavier guitar’s density is higher, so it will be slightly more than that. So a 10 lb guitar would be about 9.75 lbs with the holes.
 

jb_abides

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Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
3,311
PRS, Yamaha and Ibanez don't seem to have a problem.............. Just sayin' ;):)

US made PRS Core prices well in excess of Gibson USAs.

Others are not US made, less import regulations for sourcing, lower labor costs allow for marginal wood increase.

It's not a problem, it's an equation to be managed, optimized.
 

Weaseldust

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Joined
Mar 4, 2022
Messages
7
Personally, I think a Les Paul should be heavy; that's part of the beauty of them. I understand that holding up a heavy guitar for a whole set is tough, but it's part of the job - if rocking out was easy, everyone would do it, and it wouldn't be awesome anymore.
Its ok with lower weight until the neck dives...cant stand that.

I like the sound of chambered...they sound wacky
 

bobalu

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Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Messages
71
US made PRS Core prices well in excess of Gibson USAs.

Others are not US made, less import regulations for sourcing, lower labor costs allow for marginal wood increase.

It's not a problem, it's an equation to be managed, optimized.
I understand your equation analogy, but I have heard these before and they are the typical excuses that are always offered up to defend Gibson. A core PRS is comparable to a Custom Shop/Murphy Lab, and certainly not well in excess of a Gibson. PRS's S2 line is American made and comparable in quality to Gibsons Standard line. And far less expensive than Gibson in my experience - with much higher quality to boot. I would argue that less import regulations is a fallacy excuse. They ALL import woods and less regulation compared to Gibson is simply unfounded. Labour cost is Gibsons problem, not the consumers, and it is Gibsons own Corporate excuse they use to blame high prices on. Gibson is certainly not an industry leader in worker wages (ask an employee). My first hand experience is that American made Gibsons can barely match an import Epiphone - just do a You Tube search for comparison videos for the opinion of others. I believe that all Gibson has left is their "heritage" legacy that they milk and which is apparently still worth something in the U.S.A. , so more power to them (sincerely). Gibsons past management was a huge detriment to the Company, but even under new management, the product has changed very little beyond labelling. Profit is profit in the end and the market will decide Gibsons fate moving forward. I still love my LP Deluxe and 335 though! :) Cheers!
 

Gibsonsg

Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2021
Messages
39
My Lp's and Sg's are all arround 3,6 - 4,3 Kg. i like a bit of body and weight on my guitars! If they are to light it does not feell right for me.
But like a really heavy custom arround 4,8-5kg is to much for me 😅
 

jb_abides

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
3,311
I understand your equation analogy, but I have heard these before and they are the typical excuses that are always offered up to defend Gibson. A core PRS is comparable to a Custom Shop/Murphy Lab, and certainly not well in excess of a Gibson. PRS's S2 line is American made and comparable in quality to Gibsons Standard line. And far less expensive than Gibson in my experience - with much higher quality to boot. I would argue that less import regulations is a fallacy excuse. They ALL import woods and less regulation compared to Gibson is simply unfounded. Labour cost is Gibsons problem, not the consumers, and it is Gibsons own Corporate excuse they use to blame high prices on. Gibson is certainly not an industry leader in worker wages (ask an employee). My first hand experience is that American made Gibsons can barely match an import Epiphone - just do a You Tube search for comparison videos for the opinion of others. I believe that all Gibson has left is their "heritage" legacy that they milk and which is apparently still worth something in the U.S.A. , so more power to them (sincerely). Gibsons past management was a huge detriment to the Company, but even under new management, the product has changed very little beyond labelling. Profit is profit in the end and the market will decide Gibsons fate moving forward. I still love my LP Deluxe and 335 though! :) Cheers!

And also factor: PRS, Taylor, Martin have strategically better sourcing arrangements. Taylor cornered the ebony market.

So HJ failed, yup, made worse with the Rainforest Alliance Smartwoods [epic fail], and then [take you preferred narrative stance] the seizure from the import snafu / political persecution [more fail]. Compounded by dumb lifestyle and non-instrument ventures [ruining Onkyo... why?] which lead to bankruptcy. All fair game 'oopsies'...

So, *now* they are operating in deficit / catch-up mode, have to pay premiums for wood and manage factory and labor upgrades from a slim LBO PE kitty... since the comparisons we were talking about were current, but they are saddled with the state of affairs they inherited. Not the strong hand Paul Reed Smith had throughout.

Yes Epiphone LP copies are great and definitely have their place, but do you want a veneer maple top and polyurethane made in China? Some do, but not apt comparison.

Point being: yes, there's a "rescue upcharge" of sorts now in Gibson but I don't see it as 'pure profiteering', which is what I thought you were angling about ... I just don't, I think it's more nuanced. I think it's about the getting better vector, given the hand they were dealt. You just can't turn on a dime.
 
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