1957 Gibson Les Paul Goldtop ? serial 7-2595 ? Real or Fake ?

[lespauls]

Hello, I've been offered this guitar, claimed to be a real 1957 goldtop, apparently painted white all over at some point and then restored by Tom Murphy, who, according to the story, have removed the white color from the guitar, saving the original finish. So far I was like, so cool!

Then it turns out there is no proof that mr. Murphy has ever worked on this one, and when the detailed pics show up, control cavity looks wrong to me, as does the headstock logo placement. Hope somebody can notice something else, or chime in to explain if the oddities I see are maybe factory or not.

It has a mahogany top. And seller claims Tom Murphy has "restamped" the serial number.

The guitar sounds amazing and I'd love to get it, just not sure it's legit. Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[lespauls]

More pics

 

[catawompus]

Two different sets of tuners??? I smell something fishy here...

 

[lespauls]

Two different sets of tuners??? I smell something fishy here...

Yes, grover at once, then back to klusons, I'd love to understand what this is though, at first I was wondering if this could be a 1968, but the mahogany top? Hopefully somebody will notice some detail I'm missing.

 

[El Gringo]

Better to pass .

 

[lespauls]

Better to pass .

thank you, that was my feeling once I saw the detailed pics.

 

[Wise Guy]

That's one hell of a fake if it is. It checks all the boxes as being legit to me(for not being able to actually hold and see it). I guess it comes down to what he's asking for. And I wouldn't pay the premium if there's no proof this was dealt with by TM.

 

[El Gringo]

thank you, that was my feeling once I saw the detailed pics.

Things don't add up and factor in the asking price and it's a hard pass. Plus there are reputable vintage guitar shops that will give you great peace of mind for that amount of coin that this will cost . 2 of the finest and most reputable shops that I have purchased from are Lark Street Music in Teaneck NJ, and Gruhns In Nashville . These shops are the real deal and none are finer !

 

[El Gringo]

That's one hell of a fake if it is. It checks all the boxes as being legit to me(for not being able to actually hold and see it). I guess it comes down to what he's asking for. And I wouldn't pay the premium if there's no proof this was dealt with by TM.

If this is a vintage 57 you don't need TM blessings and aging as it will have it's own authentic aging and patina .

 

[lespauls]

That's one hell of a fake if it is. It checks all the boxes as being legit to me(for not being able to actually hold and see it). I guess it comes down to what he's asking for. And I wouldn't pay the premium if there's no proof this was dealt with by TM.

The cavities though...I was like wtf once I saw this.

 

[Wise Guy]

If this is a vintage 57 you don't need TM blessings and aging as it will have it's own authentic aging and patina .

Most definitely agree. I was just responding to the claim that TM supposedly refinished it.. And having no proof. I wouldn't pay a premium for something like that. Then again, I don't know what the seller is even asking????

 

[lespauls]

Most definitely agree. I was just responding to the claim that TM supposedly refinished it.. And having no proof. I wouldn't pay a premium for something like that. Then again, I don't know what the seller is even asking????

Nope, seller claims this is original finish , and Tom Murphy removed the white overcolor from over the guitar original finish, and then restamped the serial number. You do see white paint in the cracks here and there but have a look at the cavity picture and the logo

 

[Wise Guy]

The cavities though...I was like wtf once I saw this.

Ok I see what you're saying now. Yeah that's quite the difference but I'd have to go through my old catalogue and see if there was any cavity variance back then. Gibson did change things up occasionally using what they had on hand vs build consistency.

 

[lespauls]

Ok I see what you're saying now. Yeah that's quite the difference but I'd have to go through my old catalogue and see if there was any cavity variance back then. Gibson did change things up occasionally using what they had on hand vs build consistency.

that would be very interesting and helpful, thank you! I hope some of the owners of these will eventually chime in and share some help.

 

[Wally]

The mahogany top is rare but could be correct. The serial number is in the range for early humbuckers.

 

[lespauls]

The mahogany top is rare but could be correct. The serial number is in the range for early humbuckers.

Yes, i Know that maho tops have been used, but the serial here has been redone, so we can't use that to assure originality I think, and still, I've yet to find somebody who will confirm those cavities have been made by Gibson in any year, to the best of my knowledge that cavity route has not been made by Gibson in the 50s, but I might be wrong and that's why I asked for help here !

 

[Wise Guy]

Here's a 1957 Custom with both flat and rounded ridges.

 

[lespauls]

Here's a 1957 Custom with both flat and rounded ridges.
View attachment 14767

Yes, that's the way those should be! in this one all are rounded... that's why I've doubts concerning the originality of the whole thing now.

 

[Wise Guy]

Yes, that's the way those should be! in this one all are rounded... that's why I've doubts concerning the originality of the whole thing now.

I did find a few with all 4 being rounded. I'm not sure they were dedicated to one way or another at the time by the looks of these pics. But check this out. Pertains to this very thing. http://www.latesixtieslespauls.com/common.asp

 

[lespauls]

I did find a few with all 4 being rounded. I'm not sure they were dedicated to one way or another at the time by the looks of these pics. But check this out. Pertains to this very thing. http://www.latesixtieslespauls.com/common.asp

They made all rounded cavities for les paul goldtop in 1968, and also on specials in the 50s, but in both cases the wire channel is positioned in a different way in comparison. I've found no info of all rounded edges in the 50s for a goldtop.