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Current Historic Specs Getting Less Accurate?

modavis99

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Joined
Aug 31, 2016
Messages
35
So this thread has gone totally sideways. I’m saying I am seeing a difference, especially with some of the plastic parts of historics starting roughly around mid 2023.

Videos of Joe B / tone examples have zero to do with my question/observation.

But thanks anyway.

I’m new here but I have been around the other gear-related pages for 15+ years. I’m kind of shocked by the snark on this forum. It’s like there are two or three posters on every thread who simply want to blow up whatever people are talking about. Whenever someone makes an interesting point, they come on and immediately make 5 irrelevant posts, hiding the point and detailing the thread.

It must be on purpose. It is passive aggressive, juvenile, and frankly it ruins this forum.
 

S. Weiger

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
1,866
I’m new here but I have been around the other gear-related pages for 15+ years. I’m kind of shocked by the snark on this forum. It’s like there are two or three posters on every thread who simply want to blow up whatever people are talking about. Whenever someone makes an interesting point, they come on and immediately make 5 irrelevant posts, hiding the point and detailing the thread.

It must be on purpose. It is passive aggressive, juvenile, and frankly it ruins this forum.
It's called uncontrolled trolling. Unfortunately I think LPF is lacking the resources atm. to keep this from happening. And some members are lacking the discipline to stay on topic and not feeding trolls (myself included sometimes I know ?).

Ok Back on topic: :)

What are your thoughts on current historic specs?
 

Bryansamui

Active member
Joined
Jul 1, 2022
Messages
202
Darn tooting right . Take an Epi LP and upgrade the harness and pickups and I bet a lot of people would marvel at the tones being achieved .
Absolutely. My inexpensive Les Paul copy with my 'favourite' pickups gets MY perfect sound...My Custom Shop guitars with Gibson Pickups most certainly don't.
 

modavis99

Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2016
Messages
35
It's called uncontrolled trolling. Unfortunately I think LPF is lacking the resources atm. to keep this from happening. And some members are lacking the discipline to stay on topic and not feeding trolls (myself included sometimes I know ?).

Ok Back on topic: :)

What are your thoughts on current historic specs?

I love the scrutiny and knowledge of the details that people here have. I’ve only played a burst once and I wouldn’t know what to look for other than the things that are currently correct.

It is weird that the bridge saddles are still “wrong” and you have to go 4 uncles if you want that correct.
 

Dave P

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Joined
Oct 13, 2001
Messages
1,010
I was looking at possibly getting a new R9, but the stuff already mentioned and the hideous inlays were really turning me off, especially for the big $$$$ they go for. Shit, how hard is it to make a small adjustment on the CNC to drill the tailpiece holes correctly? It's not rocket science, I ran a Fadal and Haas VF4 CNC mills for a while. I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed.
 
W

Wizard1183

Guest
I was looking at possibly getting a new R9, but the stuff already mentioned and the hideous inlays were really turning me off, especially for the big $$$$ they go for. Shit, how hard is it to make a small adjustment on the CNC to drill the tailpiece holes correctly? It's not rocket science, I ran a Fadal and Haas VF4 CNC mills for a while. I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed.
Is it REALLY that big a deal? It’s a Gibson. Regardless of how accurate one is over another. It’s still valuable. To me? Only reason you’re looking for the MOST accurate? Is for resale value. If that’s the case? Then buy the limited edition most expensive one. Otherwise play the fucking thing and enjoy it. So because the tailpiece is off 1/4” the guitar plays and sounds like shit? Give me a fucking break!
 
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S. Weiger

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Messages
1,866
I love the scrutiny and knowledge of the details that people here have. I’ve only played a burst once and I wouldn’t know what to look for other than the things that are currently correct.

It is weird that the bridge saddles are still “wrong” and you have to go 4 uncles if you want that correct.
That part is o/c crucial to good tone. Funny enough when I swapped the ML R9 bridge for my orig. 1960, I didn't hear any noticeable difference in tone. Maybe I got a brand new R9 with an original vintage ABR-1? ? Or maybe my 1960 is an aftermarket bridge ??
Or maybe I'm too tonedeaf to hear the difference.. :unsure:
 

ourmaninthenorth

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Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
7,147
Directly to the OP.

To real enthusiasts in any sphere of interest the devil really is in the detail. I thought your question would yield an interesting and contextualised discussion on Gibson's progress or lack of with said details.

Instead we get another burgeoning example of the bubble blowers saying the usual. If I needed convincing personally that this stuff is valid, I'd really question what I'm doing in a discussion of the same, or indeed on this Forum at all. I'd certainly find something else to do, where my sparkling wit and repartee would get the attention it so obviously deserves.

The very best threads on this Forum, and I mean the very best, are when informed, evidence based, classy people share their life long experience with these guitars. These people are trying to keep the game straight, and have indeed saved many people from very much grief.

Since being here I have received an education, and many many opportunities that otherwise I'd not have got anywhere near , I've had guitars put into my hands that even I couldn't believe I was holding- my part was easy, a simple bit of humility, a willingness to say I don't know, a getting off my arse to further my knowledge.

Never once have I heard a dyed in the wool enthusiast even hint at the idea that this stuff doesn't matter, why? because quite clearly to us it does.

Thanks for starting your thread.
 

rifle

Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2002
Messages
104
The chase is always better than the catch. Even if it is for the sound or the correct color on the plastic.
I love the chase.
 
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jimmi

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Oct 8, 2012
Messages
2,082
That part is o/c crucial to good tone. Funny enough when I swapped the ML R9 bridge for my orig. 1960, I didn't hear any noticeable difference in tone. Maybe I got a brand new R9 with an original vintage ABR-1? ? Or maybe my 1960 is an aftermarket bridge ??
Or maybe I'm too tonedeaf to hear the difference.. :unsure:
I did a similar swap and saw (well heard) no appreciable improvement.

I swapped in a set of Pat# pickups and new more vintage spec reading pots….big change. The biggest difference right now (outside of feel) between vintage and the reissues is the electronics.
 

Dave P

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 13, 2001
Messages
1,010
Is it REALLY that big a deal? It’s a Gibson. Regardless of how accurate one is over another. It’s still valuable. To me? Only reason you’re looking for the MOST accurate? Is for resale value. If that’s the case? Then buy the limited edition most expensive one. Otherwise play the fucking thing and enjoy it. So because the tailpiece is off 1/4” the guitar plays and sounds like shit? Give me a fucking break!
I don't buy guitars that sound like shit, I always go and play them first. Often I don't find what I want. I tried a few of the Brazilian Murphy Labs and didn't like any of them. But why not do the job correctly in the first place? I don't NEED another Les Paul, so if they want to slack off, then fuck 'em.
 

S. Weiger

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Nov 25, 2002
Messages
1,866
I did a similar swap and saw (well heard) no appreciable improvement.

I swapped in a set of Pat# pickups and new more vintage spec reading pots….big change. The biggest difference right now (outside of feel) between vintage and the reissues is the electronics.
Wow. Was that swap to pat#'s on a Gibson with Custombuckers or the Burstbuckers?
 

S. Weiger

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Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
1,866
Custom buckers
Wish I had a set of good pat#'s to swap for trying the difference with my current 2022 ML R9, cause the 2 other Lesters I've had with CB's were awful good sounding. My 2022 CB's sounds great too, to my ears, but it would be fun to try the swap, with other pots as well.
The CB equipped one I had from 2013 was the best, but not the most accurate re. other specs, to say the least :D
 

modavis99

Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2016
Messages
35
Wish I had a set of good pat#'s to swap for trying the difference with my current 2022 ML R9, cause the 2 other Lesters I've had with CB's were awful good sounding. My 2022 CB's sounds great too, to my ears, but it would be fun to try the swap, with other pots as well.
The CB equipped one I had from 2013 was the best, but not the most accurate re. other specs, to say the least :D

This is an example where I’d rather have pickups that deliver great tone, however constructed, then pickups that are made using “vintage accurate” parts or techniques and sound bad.

I think the Custombuckers sound terrible. iMO they are just harsh
 

S. Weiger

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Nov 25, 2002
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1,866
This is an example where I’d rather have pickups that deliver great tone, however constructed, then pickups that are made using “vintage accurate” parts or techniques and sound bad.

I think the Custombuckers sound terrible. iMO they are just harsh
I recon you own/have owned a Les Paul w/ CB's ?
May I ask why on earth you bought it, if they sound so terrible to you?
 

jimmi

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Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
2,082
Wish I had a set of good pat#'s to swap for trying the difference with my current 2022 ML R9, cause the 2 other Lesters I've had with CB's were awful good sounding. My 2022 CB's sounds great too, to my ears, but it would be fun to try the swap, with other pots as well.
The CB equipped one I had from 2013 was the best, but not the most accurate re. other specs, to say the least :D
I bought two relatively recent reissues with CB. They both sounded similar in both guitars to me. Too dark and a bit muddy. Especially the neck pickups. It might have been cured with a magnet swap and higher reading pots (stocks all read low 400s) but instead of breaking into them etc I just replaced them with repros (Rewinds and Ox4s). I had a set of Pat#s I had acquired for a project guitar that fell through so I swapped those into one of the reissues that had the Ox4s. Both were better than the CBs. The Pat#s have taken it to a very good sounding to fantastic sounding guitar.
 
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modavis99

Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2016
Messages
35
I recon you own/have owned a Les Paul w/ CB's ?
May I ask why on earth you bought it, if they sound so terrible to you?

Sure. I’ve owned lots of historic Les Pauls. I know what they can do with the “right” pickups, right to my ears. I’ve had great luck with Jim Wagner Crossroads and Godwood pickups. They deliver just what I want to hear in my head.

So to me the Les Paul is a magic combination of lots of things. No other guitar I’ve played (that isn’t a copy) sounds quite like it. So I’m buying the woods, carve, neck angle, etc. I wish the Gibson pickups could deliver the tone for me, but they don’t.

Also the Gibson bridge pickups will squeal at GnR levels of gain. That’ll new Alnico 5 custombuckers sounds great but the bridge squealed so it had to go
 
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