• Guys, we've spent considerable money converting the Les Paul Forum to this new XenForo platform, and we have ongoing monthly operating expenses. THE "DONATIONS" TAB IS NOW WORKING, AND WE WOULD APPRECIATE ANY DONATIONS YOU CAN MAKE TO KEEP THE LES PAUL FORUM GOING! Thank you!

"Les Paul Guy"

John Vasco

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 23, 2002
Messages
2,064
I'm not sure how to respond to that, are you saying that trying to emulate tones heard on studio recordings is pointless?

No what I'm saying is that I will never be able to exactly replicate the sound I got with this recording (one rhythm guitar, with a solo added in the middle):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF7b...xt=C39cf06cUDOEgsToPDskK9V8dkICOt6vaB55sXmcxt

Amp signal straight into the desk, and tweaked until I was happy with it. Live, with the acoustics of each venue different, there was no way I could get the exact same sound. That's what I mean.
 

Pat Boyack

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Messages
4,475
After spending 17 years playing Strats I got myself a '97 R6 in 2000. I've hardly looked back since. For a short while I played a Reverend Slinger (3 P-90 guitar). But the thing about my Les Pauls is that they sound good almost through anything I get amp wise. My Strats/Tele are far more picky. I have a first version POD Pro from Line6 and other digital processors and the Fenders sound horrible. The Pauls are far more accepting to my ears in that environment. Tube amp wise they all sound great if the amp is working well, most times they are not. The minute the renter of the gear hears its for a Blues band they get out the amp with the worst tubes because they think that's what we want. A fast breakup. Well some off us like some headroom. ............anyway, I'm a Les Paul guy.
 
Y

yeti

Guest
No what I'm saying is that I will never be able to exactly replicate the sound I got with this recording (one rhythm guitar, with a solo added in the middle):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF7b...xt=C39cf06cUDOEgsToPDskK9V8dkICOt6vaB55sXmcxt

Amp signal straight into the desk, and tweaked until I was happy with it. Live, with the acoustics of each venue different, there was no way I could get the exact same sound. That's what I mean.

Understood but the difference between a 50's LP with Humbuckers through a NMV Marshall is relatively easily distinguishable from someone playing a Norlin LP (maybe not all of them, but every one I've heard/played) through a similar rig, both live and on recordings. That difference in tone, that openness is what many wanted from a LP but were unable to get until the Historics came out.

... When I've seen the occasional LP on a blues stage it always seemed less distinct. LP's w/P90's are a different story, but the humbuckers are so smooth, less bell-like, they tend to blend in rather than stand out. Just an observation... For me, when I am doing a bluesy number I'd rather have my Strat with the selector on the neck pickup.


I think this is very indicative of what I'm trying to say. A good ( as in "to my liking") Les Paul with Humbuckers will cut through the mix as much as most single coil guitars. Since the mid nineties ( just a guess) you can again buy a new Les Paul that will do that. And if the stock PU's don't deliver the goods you can now get a pair of lower output, unpotted designer PU's to help you out. Back during the 70's and 80's it was all about pushing a NMV Marshall hard enough, why else was the DiMarzio Super Distortion Humbucker so successful? If I wanted to sound like Steve Jones/ Sex pistols or Mick Ronson then a Norlin LP would be perfect but you would have had to look much harder back then to find one that'll give you that open , older sound. To my ears the guys that played original Bursts always had an edge over those who played Norlin era LPs but that's just me.
 
Last edited:

Kris Ford

New member
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
Messages
4,003
Understood but the difference between a 50's LP with Humbuckers through a NMV Marshall is relatively easily distinguishable from someone playing a Norlin LP (maybe not all of them, but every one I've heard/played) through a similar rig, both live and on recordings. That difference in tone, that openness is what many wanted from a LP but were unable to get until the Historics came out.




I think this is very indicative of what I'm trying to say. A good ( as in "to my liking") Les Paul with Humbuckers will cut through the mix as much as most single coil guitars. Since the mid nineties ( just a guess) you can again buy a new Les Paul that will do that. And if the stock PU's don't deliver the goods you can now get a pair of lower output, unpotted designer PU's to help you out. Back during the 70's and 80's it was all about pushing a NMV Marshall hard enough, why else was the DiMarzio Super Distortion Humbucker so successful? If I wanted to sound like Steve Jones/ Sex pistols, Ian Hunter/Mick Ronson/ Mott the Hoople then a Norlin LP would be perfect but you would have had to look much harder back then to find one that'll give you that open , older sound. To my ears the guys that played original Bursts always had an edge over those who played Norlin era LPs but that's just me.

This is just my 2 cents, but what the hell, my old '96 R7 had 57 Classics, that were very dark and smoky...but very nice sounding...my other R7 and R8 had Burstbuckers...It seems these are the most controversial PUP ever made LOL...either loved or hated....lots of talk of being harsh and ice-picky...BUT (just in my experience) that little extra brightness added the perfect zip to my JMP2203...what may not sound optimal stand alone, may sit perfectly in the band mix. Was it an "exact: PAF sound...maybe not. Was it a KICK ASS hard rock sound? You bet your ass. Now the Rs are gone, but I've found love in a BB equipped bound body/bound ebony neck silverburst Explorer...And as a LES PAUL GUY...I'm shocked the Explorer plants is foot SQUARE in that territory...(but I still want a R7/8 or Custom Les again...whats odd to me is that I seriously CAN NOT tell the difference in my old R8 and the Explorer on an audio recording....in fact the Explorer might have a lil something extra!
 

spikester

New member
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Messages
334
I don't understand the nay sayers berating those of us that have made the sacrifices we have to obtain the guitars that make us happy!!. seriously I don't go on the Fender Forums and trash their guitars I respect and own fender's also.
I've owned fender amps and Marshalls wich I still have some but i am mainly a mesa boogie player. I don't rip negatively on their forums either. Seriously you guys (putting it loosely) that bash gibson's for no reason show a lack of respect for everyone that owns a Les Paul or many Les Pauls!! Including the Musical Icons that use them!! And just because you or anyone else labels you as a Les Paul guy does not in anyway mean that you don't own or play other guitars! and as far as traditional guitar tones are concerned for blues BB King Albert King Bo Diddley all played Gibson's
 
K

Kim R

Guest
Ehh.... Gotta disagree with some of this dogma..

When it comes to "tone" and what we experienced many moons ago (some of us) and the strong preferences that may still be lingering, there's nothing like having it all in front of you again - real time - to make those same comparisons.

For years, I remembered my first Gibson, purchased brand new in 1970, as a great guitar. I had it for about a year and a half and then traded up to a 1969/70 Goldtop Deluxe. I have remembered that 1970 Norlin SG as a great player (I was 14 years old, folks), but kind-of "thin" compared to the LP Deluxe. Through the years I've often wondered how that Norlin SG would stand up beside today's Historic LP's, great variety of pickups, etc...

Three months ago the kid (now, a 53 year old man) whom I sold my SG to in 1972 gave me the guitar. He's had it all along - quit playing in 1974 and left the guitar in it's case until last October.

Today my Norlin SG sits beside some very new and very tweaked Gibson Historics with the best pickups, wiring and components that can be found - and it might be better. It still has a bright SG voice (T Tops), but absolutely not inferior in ANY metric that I can identify. When compared pricey Historic SGs, under wound this and ThroBak that - it killed 'em.

Granted: When I disassembled the guitar to clean it I got a very good look at the Norlin-era neck joint (!). The total gluing area is 2 inches long(!!!). But.... there is sits with ruler-straight relief, perfect intonation, and 3/64ths action after being strung to pitch for 42 years. Every note: clear as a bell.

Pardon me for jumping in on this, but I think that there is WAY too much stuff in our heads that really isn't connected to our ears. I am occasionally guilty!!
 

Kris Ford

New member
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
Messages
4,003
Kim, that is TOO cool you got your SG back!!! Not so sure how "full blown Norlin" a 70 is though, besides the volute, isn't it pretty much same spec as the post '66 big guard SGs? I know the cutaway bevels aren't as sharp, and the different neck joint, but the heart and soul is the same, correct? Now the '71 SG Deluxe....with the funky body, odd neck joint/angle front mount control panel....THAT'S what screams Norlin to me...
 
K

Kim R

Guest
Kim, that is TOO cool you got your SG back!!! Not so sure how "full blown Norlin" a 70 is though, besides the volute, isn't it pretty much same spec as the post '66 big guard SGs? I know the cutaway bevels aren't as sharp, and the different neck joint, but the heart and soul is the same, correct? Now the '71 SG Deluxe....with the funky body, odd neck joint/angle front mount control panel....THAT'S what screams Norlin to me...

Gotta run off to work- I'll list the specs my SG ASAP (but Kris, you're on target).
 
Y

yeti

Guest
Ehh.... Gotta disagree with some of this dogma..

When it comes to "tone" and what we experienced many moons ago (some of us) and the strong preferences that may still be lingering, there's nothing like having it all in front of you again - real time - to make those same comparisons.

For years, I remembered my first Gibson, purchased brand new in 1970, as a great guitar. I had it for about a year and a half and then traded up to a 1969/70 Goldtop Deluxe. I have remembered that 1970 Norlin SG as a great player (I was 14 years old, folks), but kind-of "thin" compared to the LP Deluxe. Through the years I've often wondered how that Norlin SG would stand up beside today's Historic LP's, great variety of pickups, etc...

Three months ago the kid (now, a 53 year old man) whom I sold my SG to in 1972 gave me the guitar. He's had it all along - quit playing in 1974 and left the guitar in it's case until last October.

Today my Norlin SG sits beside some very new and very tweaked Gibson Historics with the best pickups, wiring and components that can be found - and it might be better. It still has a bright SG voice (T Tops), but absolutely not inferior in ANY metric that I can identify. When compared pricey Historic SGs, under wound this and ThroBak that - it killed 'em.

Granted: When I disassembled the guitar to clean it I got a very good look at the Norlin-era neck joint (!). The total gluing area is 2 inches long(!!!). But.... there is sits with ruler-straight relief, perfect intonation, and 3/64ths action after being strung to pitch for 42 years. Every note: clear as a bell.

Pardon me for jumping in on this, but I think that there is WAY too much stuff in our heads that really isn't connected to our ears. I am occasionally guilty!!

It's all good, interesting story and I'm glad you have your SG back. Doing the comparison today vs from memory is the better way to get unbiased results for sure. I'm sure that there are good Norlin era Gibsons but I clearly remember every one of the 40 - 50 Les Paul from that era that I got to play as being utterly disappointing to me, especially when compared to a 50's or 60's Gibson. If that's dogma then so be it, I can only comment on my experiences. I have no desire to berate anybody or trash anyones' guitar. just expressing my preference for the newer offerings.
 

shred

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2003
Messages
4,649
Norlins flat out rock... You might not like the specs... But they sound and play great...
 
Last edited:
K

Kim R

Guest
Yeti,

No "dogma" from you, I was referring to the Norlin rap in general. Certainly there were many guitars from that era that had issues.

I appreciate your opinions here on everything!

Best,
 

thin sissy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,626
I'm not here to start a fight or anything and the whisky might make me spell even worse than usual. But I didn't see this thread as a "Gibson is better than Fender thread". I don't really feel that way, and I don't think most people here feel like that either. I think this thread is about how people percieve you when you play out, and my response was about that. I usually play a Les Paul and mostly people think it's cool because it's rare where I live.

With that said, I also have a tele which I play a lot, and the last year I've used it and a SC junior more than my regular LP. I don't think either guitar model is better than the other one (I do think my Jr. is a better guitar overall though), it's all about how you feel when you play and what kind of song you're into.

I think Mark Knopfler is a great example of this. He probably has all the guitars he wants. On some he uses his strats (probably what most people think of from his Dire Straits period) and on others he uses his LP's. On some songs he uses tele's and on some he uses acoustics. He uses what he considers to be the best tools for the jobs.

LP's and tele's are the tools that are most useful for what I do, and I'd REALLY like a 345 if I could afford one (P-90's are where it's at IMHO). Making it a competition between the two is IMHO useless, because they do different things.

I've seen my share of SRV clones, and I've seen LP's beeing used that sounded like any other guitar through that particular amp. It's all about how the player wants to sound.

I personally believe that you can sound almost anyway you want with any given guitar today, and many people use that. I think it's more fun to use an old tube amp to bring the best out of each instrument though, but at the end of the day, does anybody in the audience really notice? I don't think so, and that's why they appreciate when you use an LP instead of a red strat where I live because they're not used to the sight.

I have been getting comments on how cheap and beat up my Jr. looks though, but that's another story :) .
 

shred

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2003
Messages
4,649
Personally I think pups are the key to your tone... I don't believe in magic, I believe in results, and good pup's as Frampton would say are the way.... Whatever style you play from nu metal to ZZ top Brown sugar, you need the right pup's and amp for the job.... That's gonna trump wood every time...
 
Last edited:

Bob Womack

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2002
Messages
2,077
Every hobby has extremists. They are the ones who sit in the corner talking about who deserves to be in the club and who doesn't rather than talking about the hobby.

I'm referring to the fact that, sadly, practically no thread on this forum can't be turned into a Norlin bash. Surely, if the non-Norlin guitars are so excellent, you can talk them up (if you really think they need it) without talking other people's guitars down.

No? How sad.
 

Black58

New member
Joined
Oct 28, 2005
Messages
10,139
Every hobby has extremists. They are the ones who sit in the corner talking about who deserves to be in the club and who doesn't rather than talking about the hobby.

I'm referring to the fact that, sadly, practically no thread on this forum can't be turned into a Norlin bash. Surely, if the non-Norlin guitars are so excellent, you can talk them up (if you really think they need it) without talking other people's guitars down.

No? How sad.

.. some, and I repeat some Norlins do have their benefits, but AFAIC, people who put those things on a pedestal, have issues; .. And MORE than likely, really disturbing ones! :ganz
 

shred

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2003
Messages
4,649
Every hobby has extremists. They are the ones who sit in the corner talking about who deserves to be in the club and who doesn't rather than talking about the hobby.

I'm referring to the fact that, sadly, practically no thread on this forum can't be turned into a Norlin bash. Surely, if the non-Norlin guitars are so excellent, you can talk them up (if you really think they need it) without talking other people's guitars down.

No? How sad.

The internet is what it is... Straight up your guitar matters very little... If you're getting the results you want out of your playing, end of story... Whether it's with a Fender, Gibson, Epi, Superstrat or a Norlin, who really cares...
 
Last edited:
Y

yeti

Guest
Yeti,

No "dogma" from you, I was referring to the Norlin rap in general. Certainly there were many guitars from that era that had issues.

I appreciate your opinions here on everything!

Best,

Thanks, Kim
Regarding the issue of "looking at it/ listening again" I used to really hate the early 70's walnut ES-325/335/345/355 guitars since I first held a Gibson catalog my brother brought home in 1972. But now I want one badly because I love the look and the tone that Ryan Adams is getting with his. Things do change and perceptions need to be challenged every once in a while.:salude
 

LP4life

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
127
It's funny, my singer (we've played together on and off for the last 20 years) calls me a Les Paul guy. I've always played a Les Paul in the bands we have been in together. I have a 2006 white Custom that I got in 2008 and it is my main guitar. For the last three years I have bought and played Charvels and Jacksons. I sold two of my Jacksons and I recently got the itch for another Standard so I sold all 3 of my Charvels. Just got a CSB Trad Pro and it sounds fantastic. I recorded our last two songs with it. I've always played different brands over the past 30 years but I always come back to Gibson. Most of my influences played LP's. The Les Paul tone is what my ears want to hear. Can't get it from a Charvel, Jackson, or any other guitar I've tried over the years, so I came to the realization of "why play anything else if the LP tone is what you hear in your head?", lol. So now I have two LP's, and a Jackson KE2 (which may go up for sale shortly so I can get another Trad Pro). I love heavy rock guitar, heavy blues rock guitar, shred stuff, classic rock guitar, and a Les Paul fits the bill for those styles "for me." I am a guitar guy, but I am also a Les Paul guy, because they feel right, they balance right, and there is nothing I don't like about them. So yeah, I'm a Les Paul guy, and friends and other musicians have asked me over the years when I play something else, "Why aren't you playing your Les Paul?" It's almost like I am expected to play a Les Paul, ha ha. So now they won't have to ask anymore.
 

snag

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Messages
254
"Possibly the most ridiculous thing ever posted on this forum"....
Hmmm...not too sure about that...so...a strat thru a univibe DOESN'T sound like Robin Trower??? Interesting...


I thought I'd lost that posting honor but I went back to read and saw mine was actually the "dumbest". For me, strats, teles, es's , ricks, sg's, lp's, and others, all have something the other guys can't deliver. For me, the lp has the most and rarely leaves me wanting. I also play a tele and a strat.

Also the presence of an lp definitely raises expectations.
 
Top