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ONE MORE SOUNDFILE/ MAGNET TEST

EdA

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Jul 17, 2001
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311
Not to beat a dead horse... I have another soundfile comparison, lower down on the guitar, where I keep repeating a stupid riff because Im trying to get a low E-string squeal out of the Antiguity. The PAF did it much more easily. The PAF also has a bit more of a nasal honk. I was intentionally picking near the neck pickup to get maximum middy honk, the PAF doesnt have to sound that way, pick down near the bridge pickup and you get the Page thing. The comparison points out the difference in balls between the pickups I think. Of course if you dont want the PAF that overdriven, backin off on the amp or guitar volume cleans it up as much as you would want. Again, maybe my 8.3 Anitquity is a lame one, I dont know....

PAF / Antiquity Test 2
 

Ed Rafalko

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Jul 15, 2001
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6,287
The PAF sounds a little 'airier'.
I've been using a Custom Custom through my 50-watt and getting some pretty good ZZ Top tones. It's not that clear or airy, though.
 

EdA

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Jul 17, 2001
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311
Ive never tried that one Ed. Its supposed to be darker than the regular custom, right? I used a regular custom for years, before I got nuts with all this stuff. I like the regular custom. In fact in a few minutes Im going to try it in a friends '96 '57 reissue. I put the Antiquity with Alnico II in there and I dont think it has enough kick for him. I think he might like the custom.
 

Ed Rafalko

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Jul 15, 2001
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The Custom Custom is the same winding as a Custom ( 14K.3k) but instead of an Alnico II magnet it has the Alnico V. I think the combination of the strong windings and weak magnet give it mids. AT least that's what I've been told. I haven't tried a Custom, I've had this Custom Custom since about 1986, so it's been beat all to hell. Compared to the Seth it replaced, it's a lot heavier and darker, which is pretty much a requirement in the Deweyburst.
 
M

Mojojojo

Guest
I just installed a pair of new, unmodified Antiquities in an '01 R7 last night and they sounded pretty good stock and no problem with pinch harmonics, but I then installed full-strength Alnico II magnets from 57 Classics and they sound excellent with lots of dimension and harmonic content. They absolutely sing in this guitar. No problems getting pinch harmonics out of either pickup. They measure 7.5K neck and 8.35K bridge. Amp used was a '72 Marshall 1987 into a Ampeg 2x12 with Vintage 30s. They sound so good as it is, I'm not sure I'll bother trying Alnico V magnets at all.

There is probably so much variance in the pickups and then of course the guitars also. It's reallya crap shoot I think!
 
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R

RICH

Guest
Screw the dead horse, somebody has to do this. Necessity is the mother of invention. Question, have you tried the paf magnet in the antiquity, and the antiquity magnet in the paf? My antiquities also do the pinch harmonics easy, and they are the same reading as mojojojo's.
 
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hogy1

Les Paul Forum Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2001
Messages
361
Wow, that second pickup stinks. That's a big difference.
Thanks for recording this. Do you feel like doing one more track? I could send you some other pickups to compare to the PAF. hogy
 
M

Mojojojo

Guest
Forgot to mention: After playing around with the control cavity wiring of the tone control caps to the volume pots, I actually find I prefer the modern style cap orientation (connected to wiper of volume pot) better on this guitar with these pickups. It is less bright this way - smoother. I am still using the stock Gibson pots, though they measure right around 500K. I am currently using Orange Drop 715P series caps, which are a definite improvement over the stock ceramics.

Not sure if I will stick CTS pots in or not. I have four laying around, so I'll probably try 'em.

Any word on new pots from Weber?
 
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EdA

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Jul 17, 2001
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311
Yeah I think it IS a crap shoot. Hogy if you want to send me something, go right ahead, Id like to find out that maybe my Antiquity is a dud. In fact I just pulled it out of my friends goldtop and put in the Duncan custom and its kicking ass now. Of course a 13k ceramic pickup is not gonna be as sweet as the PAF, but it sure brought back some mids and harmonics. Im not saying its a good PAF copy at all, just saying that its kicking ass in this guitar. My custom happens to be an old one to from about '86 as well and sounds a lot different than the newer custom that was in this goldtop. NOTHING is consistent...

RICH I didnt try swapping magnets from the PAF to the Antiquity mainly because it took me forever to fool with the magnet in the PAF, positioning of coils and how tight the screw are underneath to get rid of a feedback problem I had. I aint touching it!
 

EdA

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Jul 17, 2001
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311
Speaking of consistency, I want to emphasise that a couple guys here got great results with their Antiquities and Vs, mine is only one test. It may be that somebody elses test could be quite different. I still dont think that any of these will sound JUST like a PAF, but it certainly is possible that someone elses Antiquity may sound better than mine.

I suppose one way to find out is if Gaston or Toni wants to send me their actual pickup, I could AB it.
 

DoobieK

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Jul 16, 2001
Messages
880
Ed, How does it feel to have such powerful influence over so many people? One word from EdA and civilizations could fall, careers ruined. He is responsible for the dodo bird's extinction. Ed mentioned the bird looks ugly, and one month later they are gone.

Just having some fun with you Ed. :lolspin

Keep up the good work, it has been very informative and interesting.
 

Dave Paetow

Les Paul Forum Member
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Jul 15, 2001
Messages
13,524
Some SD trivia:
Custom = ceramic magnet
Custom Custom = Alnico II magnet
Custom Custom Custom = Alnico V magnet

I've tried all the magnets in the Antiquities, and right now I'm using the old magnets, but they still don't sound like PAFs. It is not a bad sound at all, I kind of like the sound actually, but it is not the same as a good PAF. I'm totally convinced there is something else going on in a PAF besides the magnet.
 

Ed Rafalko

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Jul 15, 2001
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Hm. Guess I need a Custom Custom Custom Custom, then, huh?
They aren't making the Custom Custom Custom any more are they? I am guessing the Alnico II is brighter than the alnico V?
 
R

RICH

Guest
I'm really thinking the best test WOULD be to stick a PAF magnet in an antiquity and then stick an antiquity magnet in a PAF. that would be the most accurate way to REALLY see what the deal is. The antiquities are supposed to be wound on THEE machine that did the 50s PAFS, so either the coils aren't right, or the magnet isn't right. Putting magnets from other non paf copys isn't doing anything to find out exactly WHAT is really different. You need the tightest controll on the variables if you want any kind of clear answer. I'm sick enough that if I had a real paf, I would go as far as to knock the damn slugs, pole screws, and magnet out of it and install them in an antiquity, and if it isn't right, the coils could totally and completely be labled as WRONG, and by some chance if the pickup nails it, you know the coils are RIGHT, and would then have to move on to the metalurgy. If the antiquities have the right butyrate bobbins like the paf, are wound on THEE machine that wound the pafs, and are wound with the same wire, I would damn well install ALL the PAF metal parts in it to see what was up, everything else is just walt disney.
 

Dave Paetow

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Jul 15, 2001
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You can get a CCC through the custom shop, I heard it will be a production pickup in the spring. I understand they were developed for Godin.
 

Dave Paetow

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Jul 15, 2001
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RICH, #96 I had in Dallas had old '50's long PAF magnets in the Antiquities. It sounds good, but different from a PAF.
 
R

RICH

Guest
Yeah, but what about the slugs and pole screws? You can't forget about them, they HAVE to be doing something. Wouldn't it be a bite in the ass if the frigging slugs were part of the magic, we need a definite answer on ALL the metalurgy. Wipe out as many of the variables as possible, then we can have fred give his proclamation on the coils, but only then after ALL the metal from a PAF was installed.
 
C

charles farley

Guest
EdA

Ed, what were your findings on placement of coils and screw tightness as it relates to feedback. I took apart one of my PAFs and now it squeals like crazy, it's driving me nuts, 3 or 4 shows a week.
 

Dave Paetow

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Jul 15, 2001
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I've thought about the slugs, too. But where do you find PAF slugs? I sure as hell ain't pulling them out of my PAFs!
 
R

RICH

Guest
This is my point, the testing seems to go only SO far. I thought the slugs just push out anyway, I did it with other pickups. I think its time for me to grab a paf and go nuts.:)spin
 
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