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ONE MORE SOUNDFILE/ MAGNET TEST

Ed A

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2001
Messages
4,677
Hey Charles, Ive had a bunch of PAFs that have needed various tweaking to get rid of feedback. I think its trial and error. For low end howling feedback, in the past I had to experiment with how tight or loose the bobbin screws were, it affected the feedback. But actually with this current PAF, I had the problem youre having with the high end microphonic feedback. Lindy Fralin told me that 99% of the time, its space between the magnet and the surrounding parts. He suggested waxing just the magnet, not the whole pickup. I did, and every bit of the feedback went away. And nobody can tell me that a waxed magnet sounds any different, I sure didnt here any change.
 

toni

LPF Tone Chaser
Joined
Jul 26, 2001
Messages
1,103
Ed,

now that's a much better tone than the 1rst soundfile, i like it much better.

Whooooo big fat'n bright wooooody PAF tone ! :wow
but i think this Antiquity is somewhat dull sounding really, very weak output, no bite...
Now i clearly hear why you dont like it.
with Gibson's Alnico V, Gaston and mines are really hot so i still dont understand...

go figure...hee hee... amazing
 
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M

Mojojojo

Guest
Well I just scored two Gibson Alnico V magnets over lunch today from a local luthier and will give 'em a try. The guy told me they may be slightly weak due to sitting around in a parts droor, though they were in a box with quite a few other magnets. May need to get these remagnetized, but I will give 'em a shot for kicks.
 

NewOldCokeDave

Active member
Joined
Jul 16, 2001
Messages
4,945
I tried the P100 magnets in a pair of Antiquitys just last night..
I *think* the p100 may be Alnico V, not sure and I can't find any info to support what the hell they are.

I took the covers off and put the p100 magnets to the pickups.
I'm not gonna say that it's a dead-on PAF, but it's a hell of a lot closer than it was before. I get a lot of the harmonic aftereffect that Ed was talking about and demonstrated in the previous sound file. Not quite as much as Ed was getting, but I'd safely say 75%.

My neck pickup was pretty muffled and lacked top-end. I had removed the covers before and thought that they were pretty bright without, so I put them back on earlier. So now with the covers off and the new magnet, I'm real close to what I want to hear. I think some polepiece adjustment will put me in the ballpark.

The bridge pickup with the cover on was a bit tinny to my ear.. Now, it is still edgy, it's a LOT more woody sounding than before..
I think I hit dumb luck and and like it where it is, so I'm afraid to touch it..


I did notice 2 things. The obvious being the removal of the covers. No big revelation there, but I did notice that the magnets are of differing length. The SD Anti is .20" longer than the P100. I remember reading that the real PAFs are 2.25" long, and the P100 is 2.325" long, so the p100 is closer in length to a real magnet than the SD magnets, or so I think.. :)

I may have misinformation here on the length info, but I will say that I am happy with the sound of the pickups as they sit today, and the double cream pickups look pretty cool..

I'll be attacking the 335 soon to get the 57 Classics out of there, and put in another set of modded Antiquities.. The only problem is that one is dub-cream and the other is rev-zebra.. To put covers on or not is the question!! ;)

I'm gonna see if Seymour will remagnetize the original SD Anti magnets to full strength.
 
R

RICH

Guest
So, what you're saying is that I can ravage and pillage and smite a worthless poo-90 for alnico V magnets to breath life into the antiquities I just got? Man, thats what I call the gift of life, better than donating organs. I have a poo-90 in the drawer that is just begging for that, I'm actually glad it didn't make it to the 40 ton press.:)spin
 

Ed A

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2001
Messages
4,677
Thats great Dave, glad it worked for you. With my test I noticed a definite weakening of the pickup the Vs. You didnt?
 

Dwell

New member
Joined
Jul 18, 2001
Messages
1,128
I have no problem with harmonics, natural, pinched, or otherwise with my Antiquities. I have also heard many real PAFs that just weren't that good at all.
I think, Ed, that you have an excellent PAF, and a sub-par Antiquity (that still sounds better to you than the other PAF-clones you tried, which says something).
Given that all of this is basically a sample of one, and kind of meaningless, the next time you guys with gear and time get together, try like 5 PAFs, 5 Antiquities, 5 Tom Holmes ,and 5 Classic 57s. That might be a headache, but it would be a more meaningful shootout.
No offense intended at all, and I do thank you for doing all this work. It is a first step, certainly.
 

plaintop

Active member
Joined
Jul 15, 2001
Messages
9,591
Again, I have to side with NOCD. I really like the V in the bridge Antiquity. It is a lot woodier and middy + less bright than the II.

I think in comparison to the PAF.......The PAF seems to be simply in it's design and delivery....by that I mean the Antiquity seems to have TOO much of everything ie..lows highs and mids. It is trying too hard to be something that it isn't. Where the PAF is balanced and simply with clear articulation of the whole spectrum of tone.
 
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M

MudSkipper

Guest
after listening to the mp3 thru a pair of Audix 1A and Alesis RA100, the pickups sounds honky and identical to me.
 

Dwell

New member
Joined
Jul 18, 2001
Messages
1,128
They don't sound identical to me, but neither of them sound very good, no offense. I understand that you aren't an engineer, Ed.
But listening in my studio over a high end monitor chain, I can hear that your mic and recording chain missed a lot of the real sound each pickup has.
So...
Everyone bring your Les Pauls and pickups here, and I will gladly record the tests, if I can keep one sacrificial Historic. Deal?
 

Pickdropper

Active member
Joined
Jul 17, 2001
Messages
1,229
I don't think they sound identical, either. The recording wasn't great, but what do you expect out of a low bitrate file recorded on a cheap mic at low volumes? I wonder how big of a difference there would be with a better recording.

-Dave
 

Sean

Goldie's Man in London
Joined
Jul 15, 2001
Messages
2,021
Thanks for all the effort EdA, the sound clips are excellent, better than a thousand words!

I'm thinking you've got a dull V magnet in the Antiquity. Have you any more Vs, or IIs, you can trial?

The V in my bridge Antiquity is.... OK, but the neck Antiquity with a C57 II is *huge*, where it was previously very very weak. One change of magnet and the output and response of the pup shot up.

Thanks again :)
 
R

RICH

Guest
I really like the sound of the antiquities, and I'm not really a weak pickup dude. I have magnets from 57 classics, duncan 59s, p-90s etc, so just WHAT would give the antiquity a little more power and keep the highs? II's? V's? It seems that everybody is getting different results.
 

Freddy

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2001
Messages
396
Ed A,Thanks for taking the time to do these sound clips!!

Ed R,Evan Skopp over at the duncan board describes the tone of the Custom 5 pickup lke this:

"The SH-14 custom 5 pickup was developed by an eager group of contributors to our web user group who replaced the ceramic or Alnico 2 magnet in an SH-5 Custom or SH-11 Custom Custom with an Alnico 5. Tonally, the Custom 5 is a compromise between these two pickups. It offers the optimum balance of warmth, punch, power and clarity. Compared to the SH-5 and SH-11, the tone is more vintage, with less distortion, but it's still very strong and powerful. It's fuller than an SH-5 with softer highs, more bass, and slightly less output. It's got a great rhythm sound and a beautiful, deep singing lead tone. Clean sounds are rich and full with enhanced presence."

Anyway,cant hurt to shove in the alnico 5. :dude
 

Freddy

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2001
Messages
396
Rich,I have put the alnico 2 magnets from a Gibson 57 in one of my Antiquity Lesters and it DID have a little more balls.
But I thought some of the highs were gone and ......they didn't sound quite as "vocal" to me and lost a little magic.
BUT I also have the "Green" mod on this guitar and the middle position with the aged magnet works better for me so.....

You should try it out.......it may be what you want.
 

EdA

New member
Joined
Jul 17, 2001
Messages
311
Sure the tone and sound of these soundfiles aint nothing to write home about. I mentioned earlier that the amp was set at VERY low volume with gain. All pre-amp distortion through the little mike my computer came with. Not exactly pure tone. It was just to point out some differences. It is possible that the antiquity is not the greatest. I do know that before I got PAFs, I had Antiquities and I liked them a lot. I had a few of them. I also know that when I first went to PAFs I immediately noticed a difference. Yes some of my PAFs were not as hot as the one I have now, and maybe some of the antiquities were better than the one I used for this test. But its my own opinion that there is still a difference. Others who have tried real PAFs and Antiquities have said the same. Im only addressing the issue of whether Antiquities with different magnets can sound just like a PAF. So far, I dont think so. That doesnt mean they are bad, I happen to like them a lot. I also know that I could be wrong but with all the PAFs and Antiquities Ive had, so far I havent found a match.
 

Dwell

New member
Joined
Jul 18, 2001
Messages
1,128
I don't mean to sound argumentative.
I would bet money that good PAFs are indeed better than Antiquities. But for the price, Antiquities are consistently very good.
And I really wasn't trying to put down your recordings- they serve a purpose, and I thank you.
 

toni

LPF Tone Chaser
Joined
Jul 26, 2001
Messages
1,103
Guys,

I agree with Ed.
I am sure there is a difference between a good PAF and a good Antiquity.
When we wrote "we nailed the old Burst tone..." we were talking about the "quality ballpark".

Before the moded Antiquity thing, it was not possible for Gaston and i to have a woody rich harmonic bla bla tone...

but his particular Antiquity in the soundfile seems to be very very weak...
For instance, my moded Antiquitys are almost as strong as my Virtuals, wich are pretty powerfull by the way...

...and Guys believe me, you should hear Gaston's tone when he plays Duane Allman's riffs, ...THE SAME @#$*& TONE !

so go figure why ?

I dont know. hee hee funny thing

perpetual question...
 
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Jim Barth

New member
Joined
Jul 21, 2001
Messages
2,625
You guys keep this soundfile shit up and you'll have me buying a set of PAF's yet!!

:eek :eek
 
S

Snags

Guest
Resisting temptation...

You guys keep this soundfile shit up and I'll NEVER be able to turn my sound back up!!! :lolspin
 
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