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The Fattest clean tone for Jazz.

tusong200

Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
162
I would also recommend re-wiring to 50's style wiring so your volume control doesn't inadvertantly roll off the highs when the volume is anywhere other than 10. Your volume control will work much better and you will have much more presice control with your tone pot.
 

dlmorley

Active member
Joined
Oct 25, 2002
Messages
1,558
If I was in the market, I'd be grabbing an early 50's P90 ES-175
To me, that is THE jazz sound and they are pretty cheap really.
 

bolek

New member
Joined
Dec 31, 2005
Messages
4
Thanks everyone for your comments!

I'd like to ask you another question.

How would you compare Seth Lover, Lindy Fralin and 57 Classic(only neck position) if you have ever tried?

I want to get general difference, like brighter, darker or something like that.


Thanks,

bolek
 

plaintop60

New member
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
2,210
I don't know about Lovers but, Lindy Fralins are very single coil-like IMO, sort of light and frothy with alot of tinkle, sort of Strat-like in a way. To me, and I know I'm waaaaay in my own little minority here, I think 57 classics are about as good a humbuckers get, thick and juicy with plenty of high end definition and prescence. Keep in mind I also like burst-buckers for their brightness and quack which I know alot of others don't seem to like. I have some Fralins, Tom Holmes, 57 classics and some BB #1,#2,#3 sets and my favorites are the 57 classics and for slamming the front end of a Marshall with a Les Paul you can't beat a BB2 and 3 combo. I'm sure others will totally disagree which is cool. I've never had anything but positive comments about my tone so go figure.
 

Gitfiddler

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
1,193
Classic 57's get my vote, with Seths coming in a close second for a clearer, more defined tone. Have not tried Fralins...yet.
 

Tonedog

New member
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
125
I'm not a fan of the 57 classic in the neck (of a Les Paul anyway) they sounded too murky. I replaced the 57 classics in my R7 with Fralin 8k / 9k and the fralin neck pickup has a nice fat tone. Its not too dark, but it's big, and round and full. I have also had Lindy repair a 57 classic that had a broken wire in it. That one went in the neck of another Les Paul and had the same type results. Nice fat buttery tone.
 

C-4

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 5, 2005
Messages
1,776
I studied jazz ala Johnny Smith and Django Reinhardt for many years while learning guitar. I played on a Super 400 through a tube Ampeg and got the sound immediately.

However as Methany stated, now there are many other ways to obtain that tone.

Jazz guitars in the higher end bracket tend toward having ebony boards, maple necks, rims and backs, so they tend to be a bit brighter. They usually have a 25 1/2" scale as well.

It really can get down to the amp in a lot of cases.

I now play jazz on my CS 356 and ES 355 and get it as big as I did through my Ampeg years ago, but I play through Diezels and they have a sub-bass control that runs in the 120 hrtz range, so the bottom can be clear and still deep.

Every guitar is different in tone as we all know by now, so before unloading your 335, why not try a different amp at a store and experiment until you find a tone.

Yes, hollow body guitars will have a different tone then a semisolidbody will have, but the session players in Los Angeles and New York used to use 335's and 355's and they got the tone. Remember that if you get it really close, 99.999 % of your audience will not know the difference and if you record with it, the engineer can do wonders now.

Full hollowbody guitars will tend to howl if the amp gets too loud and that produces unpleasant results all around. Judicious use of the tone controls on your guitar and the right amp may work wonders for you.

You may laugh at this but even though I play through Diezel amps, I have a small Vox AD30VT for practice and smaller gigs and it has a great tone and is versatile and light weight. Don't just try one or two amps and ignore what may be thought of as a rock amp. You may be surprised!

Good luck in your quest.
 

plaintop60

New member
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
2,210
excellent post C-4 and you are right about alot of things. My definition of jazz tone is probably obsolete. I'm think of the pop and cluck of a good L-5 or a Super 400. My first guitars were an L-5 and a Spruce top L-50. I've even used a blackguard Tele to play jazz, and I was able to get a usable sound, even a great one, but I would not define it as a true jazz tone because my definition of a jazz sound is very narrow.
 

DannyBoy

New member
Joined
Nov 23, 2003
Messages
1,708
I played a stock maple fretboard TELE of all things for years on many jazz gigs. .13 - .58 gauge nickel flatwounds made that guitar absolutely wonderfull for jazz. I mainly played through whatever was at the gigs, but if I brought my own amp it was usually either my Magnatone MP-3 or a little Gallien Kruger 250ML.

I don't buy the business that it's the pickups. There are FAR more variables to purse that have been already covered. Strings, caps, pots, wiring schemes, etc...

That Roland amp isn't the best, but it should get you in the ball park. If nothing else, get a little graphic EQ pedal and you should absolutely be able to cut it then.
 

Sparta

New member
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Messages
693
Timbuckers in a 335

I don't know if it is "the" fattest clean tone, but here is my "perfect" logic:

  • 335 from 58 or 59 is a pretty good clean tone guitar.
  • They came with PAFs.
  • Timbuckers are the best PAF clone out there - I believe
  • Put Tims in the Custom Shop 335 and press forward playing
.

It worked.

I have NOT yet done this on the L4-CES as that seems to sound fine with the Classics and I don't want to mess with it.
 

plaintop60

New member
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
2,210
L4-CES. Now there's a way to get a jazz tone no matter what pick-ups you've got in there.
 

dewey decibel

New member
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Messages
185
I'm a jazz player (or at least I used to be). A couple things-

-I don't think of Rosenwinkle as having that fat a jazz tone. To me the first word I would think of is "dark" in relation to his sound.

-Those Rolands are great jazz amps, but they do tend to be bright. A Polytone maybe better, as would some of the more high end jazz amps (acoustic image, AER). How does your Hellhound sound?

-One thing that really helps Rosenwinkle's sound is his delay. It's really what thickens it up. As I said before, I don't think of his basic tone as very fat at all.

-Flat wound strings will for sure give you a "deader" response, more "thudier". I personally prefer the Thomastik-Infiled Strings, the Swing series are the flats. IMO, try these before you try any flats by D'Addario, GHS, etc. LaBellas are good, too.

-I agree with plaintop that a different bridge would help (along with a trapeze tailpiece). It won't give you a "fatter" sound, but it will decress the sustain. But I don't think you want to go that far- at that point you realize you don't want to mod the axe you got, you want a different axe. Besides, I'm pretty sure Rosenwinkle used a 335 (as someone mentioned).

-You sound young. Keep in mind, your taste in tones is going to change. Work on your playing, and listen to as many different cats as you can not just guitar players!). It takes awhile before you can even really hear different tones, just as it takes awhile to hear harmony, chords, etc. And while you may want to ride that tone knob real low to get a dark sound, try not to overdue it- a lot of guys do... :ganz

If I was in the market, I'd be grabbing an early 50's P90 ES-175
To me, that is THE jazz sound and they are pretty cheap really.

I guess we got a different definiton of cheap... :dang :wah :hee
 

MarcB

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 1, 2023
Messages
731
I put nylon saddles on a 335 to cut the spank a little from the burstbuckers installed.. along with the flatwounds and tone on 4 the mud is perfect..

(I also put the nylons on a 61 SG RI)
IMG_6968.jpeg
 

plexi69

Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Messages
178
I don’t think it really matters what type of equipment you’re using just as long as you make it swing.
 

brandtkronholm

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Messages
2,734
Even though it’s a necro-post, the topic is very interesting.

I crank a little Tweed and keep the volume on the guitar low until it’s time to take a lead. No pedals, just amp + guitar. I like to think I get a warm fat tone across the board.
Here I am with my 1960 Byrdland jamming with the jazz performance grad students from the university at the local monthly session.
(I am grateful for their patience with me! 🤪 They’re all monster players. The guy with the Tele is a freak-beast with mega chops.)

I should really post a sound/video clip…

45090758-A52E-49FF-9654-D0B90AFD7461.jpeg
 
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