EC+335 into a killer sounding amp

[vintage58]

And so I'm not hijacking. I'm so sick of Layla, in any shape or form, I just couldn't get thru the Clapton/Marsalis vid.

:hee
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[lpnv59]

:salude
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:rofl
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One thing that surprises me is that Alan is apparently 73 years old now, which would mean that he was about 42 in 1980. (Since the two of you actually interacted with him around that time, could this be true?) As I understand things, it was revealed a couple of years ago that he is actually ten years older than had been previously believed. I don't know how true this all is, but at present his birth year is reportedly 1938.

The below-linked YouTube clip is too hilarious. It is just audio, and there's not a dull moment in the whole four minutes (for example, the crowd's steady chant of the word "Elvis"), but things *really* get cooking toward the last minute or so, especially when Alan shouts, "SHUT THE FUCK UUUUUP!!! THIS IS ABOUT FRANKIE!!!":
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdpU5roXBfE
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My bands interaction with Suicide was actually circa 1977. I suspect this would be the case for EE, Ric & David of the Cars as well. They were the three members who hung out the most at the Rat from my recollection. Allan would have been around 39 at the time. A few years older than some on the scene but certainly not the oldest. I have never been an agist nor were most of the people I knew back then. At least the ones who were serious about making the best music or art. The singer in the band I was playing with back then was I think 35yo at that time. In '77 I was all of 22. It didn't matter to me then. Still doesn't since I did a gig with him the day before yesterday. And Alan Vega rocks as hard as anyone at any age.

 

[capitalbear]

...
And so I'm not hijacking. I'm so sick of Layla, in any shape or form, I just couldn't get thru the Clapton/Marsalis vid.

Couldn't either but c'mon, could be worse, imagine they'd did 'Tears in Heaven' instead. :wah

 

[vintage58]

It didn't matter to me then. Still doesn't

Me neither, and sorry if my comments came off that way. Quite the contrary — to me, it's a source of inspiration to discover that he was (and, apparently, still is) doing an act like that at an age that might be "later" than one would ordinarily expect. Although I suppose there are a bunch of examples of that.... for example (and to stay with this particular musical milieux), I think Debbie and Stiv were a couple of others who came into their own prominence later in life than the current 2012-era expectation for a rock and roll "expiration date." Speaking of which, I still find it shocking to have watched Iggy perform some months back on American Idol. That was truly bizarre.
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[lpnv59]

Me neither, and sorry if my comments came off that way. Quite the contrary — to me, it's a source of inspiration to discover that he was (and, apparently, still is) doing an act like that at an age that might be "later" than one would ordinarily expect. Although I suppose there are a bunch of examples of that.... for example (and to stay with this particular musical milieux), I think Debbie and Stiv were a couple of others who came into their own prominence later in life than the current 2012-era expectation for a rock and roll "expiration date." Speaking of which, I still find it shocking to have watched Iggy perform some months back on American Idol. That was truly bizarre.
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I hear ya. The Iggy example is a perfect one, and his American Idol appearance could be taken a few ways. I choose to believe it was a fuck you to all that reality /game show / this is how R&R stars are manufactured in the modern age bullshit. When I hear my friends, who unlike myself, are still trying to stay as working musicians, embrace the American Idol phenom simply because it sells. I tend to look at their music a bit differently after they argue the point of it being valid. Makes me suspect when I hear their latest material that its somehow more shallow and coming from a less than sincere inspiration.....I'm starting to talk myself up my own arse now so I'll STFU!:rofl :rofl

Regarding Eric....I usually love his sound with any guitar because I listen for the sound of his hands. For me, he can still bring it when he plays blues and is feeling it. He is NOT a god really. Hes a gifted young player, who played & looked the right way, at the right time & place. He also happened to be smart enough to know that he had to evolve in order to stay interesting. If he kept making Beano & Cream records he would have been history long ago. And I always believed he kept or attempted to to keep his playing & material as honest as possible in a dishonest business. Actually in reality, its a very honest business.

Starting to do it again....I gotta really STFU:lol

 

[yeti]

...Regarding Eric....I usually love his sound with any guitar because I listen for the sound of his hands. For me, he can still bring it when he plays blues and is feeling it. He is NOT a god really. Hes a gifted young player, who played & looked the right way, at the right time & place. He also happened to be smart enough to know that he had to evolve in order to stay interesting. If he kept making Beano & Cream records he would have been history long ago. And I always believed he kept or attempted to to keep his playing & material as honest as possible in a dishonest business. Actually in reality, its a very honest business.

Starting to do it again....I gotta really STFU:lol

You nailed it! But truth be told, isn't he also some "ambassador" of the same kind as that Wynton fella?

 

[vintage58]

isn't he also some "ambassador" of the same kind as that Wynton fella?

As regards the blues, Eric or B.B. — as like Wynton with jazz — may have had the "ambassasdor" title thrust upon them by the music industry or the media, but Eric and B.B. don't seem to take it seriously, embrace it, or treat it like it's some kind of "official" designation, in the ways that Wynton appears to. And that's why Eric and B.B. are likable as public figures, whereas Wynton IMO is not. Also, Eric and B.B. can legitimately lay claim to being ground-breaking innovators within their style, whereas Wynton cannot. If anything, Wynton is a refiner of already existing styles of playing — i.e., his playing does not take (and has never taken) jazz in any spectacularly new direction, other than perhaps making it more and more academic, which is sad because when that happens to anything it tends to suck everything that was originally vital about that thing, out of it. In other words, Wynton is probably the finest single entity to yet come along, to complete the transformation of jazz into a museum piece, which is a direction that I for one don't think it should be going in.
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[vintage58]

By the way, I apologize for spewing yet more negativity about Wynton. I guess the bottom line is, I have never cared for his playing and I tend to be a bit wary of anyone who sees fit to appoint himself spokesperson for an entire style of music. I also think the fact that he had the nerve to walk on stage in the middle of a legendary elder's set, pretty much says all one needs to know about Wynton. I mean, imagine how arrogant you'd have to be — at age 24, no less — to think you could walk on stage and interrupt (of all people to do this to) Miles freakin' Davis! 'Nuff said. I'm glad that Miles told him off.

Anyway.... carry on.
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[vintage58]

I hear ya. The Iggy example is a perfect one, and his American Idol appearance could be taken a few ways. I choose to believe it was a fuck you to all that reality /game show / this is how R&R stars are manufactured in the modern age bullshit. When I hear my friends, who unlike myself, are still trying to stay as working musicians, embrace the American Idol phenom simply because it sells. I tend to look at their music a bit differently after they argue the point of it being valid. Makes me suspect when I hear their latest material that its somehow more shallow and coming from a less than sincere inspiration.....I'm starting to talk myself up my own arse now so I'll STFU!

It's a conundrum, for sure, the idea of how much to "go with the flow" in terms of embracing something as positively vacant as American Idol. I don't really look upon it so much as a show, as much as a whole new mentality, i.e., this whole idea that one now has to be "picked" by a group of judges, to ever 'be' anything. Whether it's getting a job at a company (a la The Apprentice), being the next Iron Chef, or being the next big-selling pop singer. Unfortunately, a lot of kids these days are growing up with that view of creative success — that the whole thing is more of a competition, rather than just doing something you believe in just for the sake of that. So, the question inevitably comes up of how much you either resist the new "way" or incorporate it into whatever you're already doing. IMO, any artist's (painter, musician, whatever) primary responsibility is to himself. So, I generally follow the view of staying true to your own artistic vision, no matter how stupid the world around you gets. I do realize that Bob once said that one will "sink like a stone" if you do that, but I don't know if he realized how idiotic things would get in twenty-first century pop culture when he wrote that line [laughs].
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[yeti]

By the way, I apologize for spewing yet more negativity about Wynton. I guess the bottom line is, I have never cared for his playing and I tend to be a bit wary of anyone who sees fit to appoint himself spokesperson for an entire style of music. I also think the fact that he had the nerve to walk on stage in the middle of a legendary elder's set, pretty much says all one needs to know about Wynton. I mean, imagine how arrogant you'd have to be — at age 24, no less — to think you could walk on stage and interrupt (of all people to do this to) Miles freakin' Davis! 'Nuff said. I'm glad that Miles told him off.

Anyway.... carry on.
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I can certainly imagine Miles doing something like that, he was sort of an arrogant ass himself, wasn't he?
Here's what Charlie Mingus wrote to Miles in an open letter in Down Beat Magazine in 1955 regarding the magazines' "blindfold tests"

..“Remember me, Miles? I’m Charles. Yeah, Mingus! You read third trumpet on my California record dates 11 years ago on the recommendation of Lucky Thompson. So easy, young man. Easy on those stepping stones…”

 

[Litcrit]

I was skeptical but I thought it was a cool version..Layla lends itself to that kind of "St James Infirmary" treatment..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzcpUdBw7gs

I remember when Wynton was on a very high horse blasting all the jazz cats (including his brother Branford) for "selling out" with pop music..hmmm..

 

[vintage58]

I can certainly imagine Miles doing something like that

I can't. Miles was 24 in 1950. At that time, let's say that the most legendary "elder" trumpeter on earth was Louis Armstrong. Even though Miles was only 25 years younger than Louis (whereas Wynton was 35 years younger than Miles), I still think the "seniority/newcomer" relationship between Louis and Miles in 1950 would be roughly analogous or comparable to that which existed between Miles and Wynton in 1986. Anyway, for whatever else one can say about Miles, he did have two things that Wynton does not appear to possess: taste and respect. So, no — I can't imagine Miles doing something as positively and woefully lacking in taste and/or respect, as walking out on stage in the middle of Louis trying to play a show, which would be the closest thing I can think of to being "something like that."
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he was sort of an arrogant ass himself, wasn't he?

I don't think so. I did not know him personally, but I know at least one guy who used to play in one of his bands, and I've heard a bunch of stories from people who did actually know him personally. Nothing I've seen of Miles would indicate that he was arrogant, although I can absolutely understand where his demeanor and/or behavior could very easily be interpreted that way. Instead, I attribute the frequently held perception of his arrogance, to being an outgrowth of something that Miles himself once described as being a defining principle of his approach to life, which — in his own inimitable way of putting things — consisted of the following three words: "Avoid unnecessary bullshit." As a fellow avoidant person, I can definitely vouch for the idea that avoidance can often have the unfortunate (and unintentional) result of people thinking you're an asshole, or arrogant, or whatever.
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[yeti]

Vintage 58, do you consider trashing every recording Miles heard in those blindfold tests to be something other than arrogant for an up-and coming artist? I don't and apparently neither did Mingus, otherwise he wouldn't have felt compelled to write an open letter reminding Miles to go easy on those who came before him and made his music possible. Anyway, Miles always had to contend with charges of him being arrogant and his replies usually didn't help. When asked why he was playing with his back to the audience he pointed out that nobody complained about conductors of orchestras doing the same thing and why should he be treated differently. When you think about that response for one second you'll realize what a BS argument that is. Conductors don't play "their" instrument away from the audience, the orchestra IS their instrument (Klangkoerper) and it faces the audience. The list of Miles' shenanigans is endless and some may find it endearing, I have no opinion on it but you trash one guy for being rude to someone who's made a career of being rude. Just saying...
Have you considered that maybe, as a practical joke, some smartass backstage told Wynton to go up there and sit in at Miles' request?

 

[Litcrit]

Bix! The greatest! I once asked Amos Garrett about his influences because of his unusual choices and unique style. He said he was trying to play like Bix. And Tram. For Trumpet I also love Lee Morgan's Blue Note stuff.

And let's not forget Freddie Hubbard: his 60's stuff with the Miles alumni (Herbie, Wayne, Ron, Tony etc) is all great.

 

[Litcrit]

I can certainly imagine Miles doing something like that, he was sort of an arrogant ass himself, wasn't he?
Here's what Charlie Mingus wrote to Miles in an open letter in Down Beat Magazine in 1955 regarding the magazines' "blindfold tests"

If you were 20 years old playing with Charlie Parker (after Dizzy split), you might be a bit arrogant too...If you read his autobiography, he remembered a LOT of anxiety trying to fill Dizzy's shoes (for good reason, Dizzy was flat-out super-human)

Anyway, this is a very old argument: if we're going to judge musicians and artists based on their personal life, there are going to be VERY FEW who make the cut...Picasso was one of the biggest SOBs who ever walked the face of the earth, Bird was a stone-cold sleazy junkie, the list goes on and on..

 

[yeti]

...Anyway, this is a very old argument: if we're going to judge musicians and artists based on their personal life, there are going to be VERY FEW who make the cut...Picasso was one of the biggest SOBs who ever walked the face of the earth, Bird was a stone-cold sleazy junkie, the list goes on and on..

Thanks for pointing that out because that's what irks me a little bit about Vintage58's original post regarding Wynton Marsalis' being an asshole. Why single out that guy's character? I read EC's Bio and from what I've read I would not want to have anything to do with the man but in this discussion that just irrelevant. Didn't mean to bash Miles, just trying to make the point that you happened to make so much better.:salude

 

[vintage58]

Why single out that guy's character?

I agree with Litcrit's point that there's a long tradition of great artists being assholes as people. The thing about Wynton, however, is that he carries himself with all of the assholism typically associated with a great artist, but without ever actually having been one. This, I think, elevates his assholism into a whole new realm. Therefore, I singled him out. Sorry to have irked you.
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[yeti]

I agree with Litcrit's point that there's a long tradition of great artists being assholes as people. The thing about Wynton, however, is that he carries himself with all of the assholism typically associated with a great artist, but without ever actually having been one. This, I think, elevates his assholism into a whole new realm. Therefore, I singled him out. Sorry to have irked you.
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Well, I was irked BUT also entertained, thanks for a fun thread and thanks for expanding my vocabulary!
:3zone :3zone

 

[vintage58]

I'd love to take credit for that word, but upon reflection I think I picked it up from watching Pink Flamingos one too many times when I was a kid. As I recall, at the end of the movie Divine convicts and sentences the two villains of the movie. Technically, it's a "trial" scene, and Divine explains to the two of them that they've both been found guilty of assholism. So, I guess thank John Waters!
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[lpnv59]