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Hey it's Mat from Gibson Product Development - AMA

Garincha

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2005
Messages
381
Hi Mat,

I've got a question regarding the "Originals" series. I'm lusting for an SG for quite a while, but the usual necks on SGs are far to slim for my liking. Now I just came back from playing two Custom Shop '64s at Session Music in Frankfurt and these guitars had the perfect neck shape for my taste (and didn't sound too shabby either).

Well I can't swing Custom Shop prices anymore, but a SG from the Originals series would be in my range, although the current offerings have that dreaded slim neck. Is there a remote possibility for a SG '64 in the Originals Collection? Wouldn't hurt if Pellham Blue was one of the color options too... :sneaky:
 

madrivermoco

Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2021
Messages
26
Ha, Cesar loves to rile 'em up! So here's the story on this. The one real Futura -- shipped to San Antonio Music on December 4th, 1957 and sold to local musician Ponty Gonzales -- was acquired by Kurt Linhof in the 1970s as many of you know. One of Gibson's long-tenured employees worked for the shop that Kurt took the guitar to for refurbishment, and while it was there, they got the approval to take measurements of the exterior dimensions and routes. This is the FIRST mock-up of the Futura made with those measurements, and it is extremely helpful as a reference. We even compared its dimensions and scale to the concept art drawing and patent drawing, and the shoe fits! Unfortunately good intentions sometimes lead to bad things, so I know that these dimensions almost immediately fell into the wrong hands and replicas were made and sold as real. All are completely bogus except the Linhof Futura. Honorable mention for the Rick Derringer split headstock Explorer, which is real IMO.
7D66B623-512F-4040-9B7F-46E43B134599.jpeg

You can’t really whamm-o! without the proper backline. I mean, if I wanted to be the Mack tonight, this is where I’d Explore. Any Pythagorean korina thunder thumpers in the pipeline?
 

matkoehler

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
312
Apologies, I meant on a Wildwood Spec Murphy Lab VOS. Sorry for the confusion.

In post #474 in this thread I had asked:
Is the lacquer on all of the Murphy Labs the same? I have a 2021 Murphy Lab 1958 Reissue VOS.

In post #478 you replied:
No problem! 1) yes it is the same lacquer used on everything from Murphy Lab.
There is no such thing as a Murphy Lab VOS guitar. Murphy Lab and VOS are different (and different lacquers). Is it possible you have an Ultra Light Aged Murphy Lab guitar?
 

matkoehler

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
312
Hi Mat,

I've got a question regarding the "Originals" series. I'm lusting for an SG for quite a while, but the usual necks on SGs are far to slim for my liking. Now I just came back from playing two Custom Shop '64s at Session Music in Frankfurt and these guitars had the perfect neck shape for my taste (and didn't sound too shabby either).

Well I can't swing Custom Shop prices anymore, but a SG from the Originals series would be in my range, although the current offerings have that dreaded slim neck. Is there a remote possibility for a SG '64 in the Originals Collection? Wouldn't hurt if Pellham Blue was one of the color options too... :sneaky:
Obviously we can’t take custom orders at Gibson USA, but the best way to make this a reality is to convince a major dealer to do an exclusive run. The minimums are quite large, which is why I suggest a major dealer.

Another option is frequently checking the Gibson Mod Shop/Demo Shop pages on Reverb. I have seen several Stop Bar ‘64 SGs on there…
 

SFLP

Active member
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
1,024
There is no such thing as a Murphy Lab VOS guitar. Murphy Lab and VOS are different (and different lacquers). Is it possible you have an Ultra Light Aged Murphy Lab guitar?
I think he is referring to guitars that are Murphy painted but not aged. Wildwood has done runs of both LPs and 335s that are Murphy painted but gloss or VOS finish. They come with Murphy Lab COAs. The question is whether the guitars that Tom paints (but are not aged by the Murphy Lab) get the same lacquer that the Murphy Lab uses or the regular Custom Shop lacquer.
 

Dport

New member
Joined
Nov 9, 2020
Messages
19
I think he is referring to guitars that are Murphy painted but not aged. Wildwood has done runs of both LPs and 335s that are Murphy painted but gloss or VOS finish. They come with Murphy Lab COAs. The question is whether the guitars that Tom paints (but are not aged by the Murphy Lab) get the same lacquer that the Murphy Lab uses or the regular Custom Shop lacquer.
Yes, this.
 

Grem

New member
Joined
Jun 3, 2022
Messages
7
Matt I got one for you here.

I have a Norlin era Les Paul (my avatar) that I bought from a music store in the New Orleans area. I brought it back in to this same store to get a basic setup done on it. The guitar tech came and found me in the store then he brought me to his workshop area. He asked me "Did you know your guitar did this?" he pointed out to me that my neck was off of the body, neck in his hand, and the body was on his work bench. I told him that I didn't realize that my guitar did that. When he put it back together I asked him to show me how to do that. He showed me how and I would take the neck off when I did a cleaning of the guitar. However, I have long ago forgot how to take this neck off my Les Paul.

The thing is, I have no pictures to show that what I am saying about my Les Paul is true. I had no clue back then and knowing what I know now I can see why people look at me with disbelief! : )

The joint holding the neck in is some kind of "locking dovetail" joint. It has the basic shape of a dovetail, but it has no square edges, they are rounded/curved. And when you take it off it kinda 'snaps' off. When you put it back it "snaps" back in. There is no glue holding the neck in the joint.

With no strings on the guitar the neck is still as solid as a set in neck. Infact, you could not tell this neck from a set in neck.

Do you have any knowledge of prototype LP from the Norlin era having a neck such as I described?

Any help opinions from anyone would be welcomed.

I have included a pic of the neck joint showing I have taken that neck off before. You can see the cracked finish.

Neck Joint LP (2).jpg
 

EliasCombinas

New member
Joined
Apr 23, 2022
Messages
2
Matt I got one for you here.

I have a Norlin era Les Paul (my avatar) that I bought from a music store in the New Orleans area. I brought it back in to this same store to get a basic setup done on it. The guitar tech came and found me in the store then he brought me to his workshop area. He asked me "Did you know your guitar did this?" he pointed out to me that my neck was off of the body, neck in his hand, and the body was on his work bench. I told him that I didn't realize that my guitar did that. When he put it back together I asked him to show me how to do that. He showed me how and I would take the neck off when I did a cleaning of the guitar. However, I have long ago forgot how to take this neck off my Les Paul.

The thing is, I have no pictures to show that what I am saying about my Les Paul is true. I had no clue back then and knowing what I know now I can see why people look at me with disbelief! : )

The joint holding the neck in is some kind of "locking dovetail" joint. It has the basic shape of a dovetail, but it has no square edges, they are rounded/curved. And when you take it off it kinda 'snaps' off. When you put it back it "snaps" back in. There is no glue holding the neck in the joint.

With no strings on the guitar the neck is still as solid as a set in neck. Infact, you could not tell this neck from a set in neck.

Do you have any knowledge of prototype LP from the Norlin era having a neck such as I described?

Any help opinions from anyone would be welcomed.

I have included a pic of the neck joint showing I have taken that neck off before. You can see the cracked finish.

View attachment 18274
What happens to the fretboard when the neck is off???
 

Wilko

All Access/Backstage Pass
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Messages
20,148
The joint holding the neck in is some kind of "locking dovetail" joint. It has the basic shape of a dovetail, but it has no square edges, they are rounded/curved. And when you take it off it kinda 'snaps' off. When you put it back it "snaps" back in. There is no glue holding the neck in the joint.
does it look like this?

Longtenon-shorttenon1.jpg
 

jonspace

New member
Joined
Jan 29, 2020
Messages
11
Hi Mat! I recently bought a brand new R4 that was incorrectly configured as an R6 (R4 serial # and COA, but with tune'omatic - but still has speed knobs). I contacted Gibson to get me some sort of documentation to live with the guitar so that in the future it is not considered a bootleg or modified. Gibson won't send me the correct knobs or documentation but they were kind enough to offer to swap the guitar to a proper R6. Is there any way to ensure I get a replacement that isn't heavier, or has other flaws? With dealers, I can return/exchange guitars that arrive that either scratched (the first two R4s I received had pretty bad flaws - green blotching on one area of the top - obvious re-work, and the other had scratches on the clear coat). I'm nervous about exchanging a CS guitar directly with Gibson because I don't want to get stuck with a flawed or too heavy of a guitar.
 

Grem

New member
Joined
Jun 3, 2022
Messages
7
does it look like this?

Longtenon-shorttenon1.jpg
Neither. But the bottom one is a closer example.

Using the bottom one as a guide, the part to the left that has the tapered sides would be rounded instead on my neck joint.

I have made a model in 3D Paint, and this is about the best I can do with it. The first pic the most notable thing is the way the joint is made at the bottom of the heel. That's how it looks. The upper part of the joint near the fretboard is more flared out where it meets the fretboard and not exactly round like in this drawing.

The second pic is also just an rough outline of how the neck joint looks. As you can see, it's a neck tendon. Just not any I have ever seen.

I have searched and looked around the internet, but haven't seen anything that closely resembles what I am talking about. Maybe someone with better search skills could find something.

Neck Joint 3D .png

Neck Joint 3D 2 .png
 

matkoehler

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
312
Hi Mat! I recently bought a brand new R4 that was incorrectly configured as an R6 (R4 serial # and COA, but with tune'omatic - but still has speed knobs). I contacted Gibson to get me some sort of documentation to live with the guitar so that in the future it is not considered a bootleg or modified. Gibson won't send me the correct knobs or documentation but they were kind enough to offer to swap the guitar to a proper R6. Is there any way to ensure I get a replacement that isn't heavier, or has other flaws? With dealers, I can return/exchange guitars that arrive that either scratched (the first two R4s I received had pretty bad flaws - green blotching on one area of the top - obvious re-work, and the other had scratches on the clear coat). I'm nervous about exchanging a CS guitar directly with Gibson because I don't want to get stuck with a flawed or too heavy of a guitar.
Hey man! Thanks for the note. Sounds like a complete goof by Custom Shop, but only the first time I've heard of something like that making it through. It was clearly intended to be one or the other. I agree that the only way to make it right is to either 1) reserialize your guitar as a '56 and replace the knobs & COA or 2) exchange it. The exchange bit is really at the mercy of what is in inventory at the time, so can't really be picky about the weight but I would still mention that you would like as lightweight as possible. All new Gibson should be first quality without exception, so you would not be getting a demo shop guitar or anything like that. Good luck with this and so sorry that it happened! -Mat
 

TM1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Messages
8,182
Well Gibson should use this type of lacquer regardless of ML or not
The Nitro used on the Murphy's is the Vintage formula reversed engineered and recreated. It is mostly different from the stuff used by Custom.
 

Wizard1183

Active member
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
258
The Nitro used on the Murphy's is the Vintage formula reversed engineered and recreated. It is mostly different from the stuff used by Custom.
I said they SHOULD be using both the same nitro. Gibson reverse engineered it. So why not use it on ALL Custom shop reissues? You’re charging for it regardless. Murphy didn’t reverse engineer it. Gibson did. So it’s kinds a dumb to just use it on MLs. They’re already making an immense profit on all the guitars. There’s no longer many places that offers a good discount on Custom shops. 90% of CS you’ll pay MSRP
 

goldtop0

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
8,433
I said they SHOULD be using both the same nitro. Gibson reverse engineered it. So why not use it on ALL Custom shop reissues? You’re charging for it regardless. Murphy didn’t reverse engineer it. Gibson did. So it’s kinds a dumb to just use it on MLs. They’re already making an immense profit on all the guitars. There’s no longer many places that offers a good discount on Custom shops. 90% of CS you’ll pay MSRP

Email 'em and tell 'em they should do that.
 
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