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Hey it's Mat from Gibson Product Development - AMA

matkoehler

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Sep 12, 2014
Messages
340
Interesting!
Were the black Black Top Hat knobs and truss covers also revised as part of the True Historic plastics?
Yes, including the reflector knobs. Another related historic oddity -- in the 1950s and 1960s, Gibson had different heights of knobs to fit different potentiometer + control route combinations. If you check out a variety, you'll see what I mean. Different depths.
 

goldtop0

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Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
8,487
Hi Mat, just to say thanks for my great fat necked '58 M2M 335 'Runaround Sue', she arrived 2 weeks ago and is a beauty.
Have formally thanked the CS crew that worked on her over the time to produce an outstanding guitar, cheers (y)
 

jonspace

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Joined
Jan 29, 2020
Messages
14
Is there a way to connect with someone directly in the Custom Shop regarding an issue? I'm on my second R6 replacement because of pretty terrible QC issues and it's taken many months even to get to this point. I'm working with a Gibson customer service rep but it seems like that service team then it has to communicate with Custom Shop and relay information back and forth. They only take messages and serve as an in between point of contact. It's nothing against them, but even they admit they can't do anything themselves to help the situation. It would be easier to work with someone directly in the Custom Shop to get this resolved.
 

goldtop0

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Aug 19, 2003
Messages
8,487
Is there a way to connect with someone directly in the Custom Shop regarding an issue? I'm on my second R6 replacement because of pretty terrible QC issues and it's taken many months even to get to this point. I'm working with a Gibson customer service rep but it seems like that service team then it has to communicate with Custom Shop and relay information back and forth. They only take messages and serve as an in between point of contact. It's nothing against them, but even they admit they can't do anything themselves to help the situation. It would be easier to work with someone directly in the Custom Shop to get this resolved.

What sort of issue(s) are you having with the R6s.
 

sputnik

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Aug 4, 2018
Messages
21
Hey Matt,

First off, this is not a complaint but an observation. Is there a reason the burst’s on the ES line are being sprayed like this? Just doesn’t seem anything like the vintage examples I’ve seen. This is probably the most drastic I’ve seen but I’ve noticed most have the same “perimeter” burst.

Also, I recently bought a 2022 R8 and one of the 60th Anniversary SG’s. Both are unbelievable guitars. Gibson Custom is killing it!

 
Last edited:

Phoenician

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Oct 12, 2020
Messages
63
I have been insanely busy, yes -- but also very confused where we are at with this thread. It really devolved as they tend to do after any length of time. But I definitely appreciate succinct, direct questions as I have trouble weeding through these.

I love the thread and I confess that I’ve stopped reading the questions and I just read your answers Mat. I missed whatever whatever.

Quick question, can the GCS install a StringBender or similar B-Bender system into a custom ordered Les Paul Standard?
 

matkoehler

Well-known member
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Sep 12, 2014
Messages
340
Hey Matt,

First off, this is not a complaint but an observation. Is there a reason the burst’s on the ES line are being sprayed like this? Just doesn’t seem anything like the vintage examples I’ve seen. This is probably the most drastic I’ve seen but I’ve noticed most have the same “perimeter” burst.

Also, I recently bought a 2022 R8 and one of the 60th Anniversary SG’s. Both are unbelievable guitars. Gibson Custom is killing it!

They are not getting painted like that unless they are ordered that way via M2M, which this one was.
 

matkoehler

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Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
340
I love the thread and I confess that I’ve stopped reading the questions and I just read your answers Mat. I missed whatever whatever.

Quick question, can the GCS install a StringBender or similar B-Bender system into a custom ordered Les Paul Standard?
Thanks! And sorry but no, you’ll have to do that aftermarket. Really most of your M2M options are going to be things that we have done before or we are doing currently.
 

matkoehler

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
340
Is there a way to connect with someone directly in the Custom Shop regarding an issue? I'm on my second R6 replacement because of pretty terrible QC issues and it's taken many months even to get to this point. I'm working with a Gibson customer service rep but it seems like that service team then it has to communicate with Custom Shop and relay information back and forth. They only take messages and serve as an in between point of contact. It's nothing against them, but even they admit they can't do anything themselves to help the situation. It would be easier to work with someone directly in the Custom Shop to get this resolved.
We don’t have any customer service teams at the craftories, just QC engineers, so that is the reason for the back and forth with the main office. Sorry for the trouble and good luck…hope it gets resolved soon. -Mat
 

Phoenician

Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
63
Thanks! And sorry but no, you’ll have to do that aftermarket. Really most of your M2M options are going to be things that we have done before or we are doing currently.

Okay, fair enough…if I want a GCS / M2M guitar what is my next step…? I know, in Phoenix, it’s not GC.
 

Phoenician

Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
63
Consult a Custom Shop dealer! Closest to you would probably be Rainbow Guitars. :)

Correct but my friend in Tucson who used to buy there all the time said they ain’t the same as they used to be. From my perspective, there isn’t anyone attractive to work with in Arizona. I‘d probably call Willcutt at this point. I did ask them about a special order from Mesa but apparent Mesa has a hold on special orders. But that’s another matter entirely. On the bright side I do have a FCS Masterbuilt order in the hopper so that’s something to look forward to soon.
 

jonspace

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Jan 29, 2020
Messages
14
What sort of issue(s) are you having with the R6s.
It goes back several guitars. I wanted to keep the first one since it was only a serial # issue and it played and sounded incredible but Gibson wouldn't let me keep it and wouldn't provide me with the correct COA/paperwork to prove it was authentic. The agent on the phone said it was going to go to "a famous person for free" instead which was a crappy thing to hear because I wanted to keep it really badly and even offered to pay for it. I even left a note inside the case for the return guitar to remind them I wanted to keep it. I didn't even want to send it in the first place. I kinda wish I put one of those Apple AirTags in it to track it so I can get it back.

The replacement I got has deep uneven cuts into the body binding from razor scraping (more so than usual/tolerable) to the point where the paint layer has its own uneven and inconsistent jagged edges that you can rest a thick guitar pick on in certain spots. Think of breaking a block of hard cheese in two with your hands and leaving a bumpy/edge/uneven result. That's how it feels and looks. When you run your finger on the body, it feels uneven and with sharp bumps like if you run your finger along a broken cement brick. Visually, when you look down on the body from playing position, the edges of the guitar look like a Tetris game in progress. Instead of the binding/paint edge being smooth and curvy around the body top, the paint and binding have uneven edges. It almost looks like pieces of the binding are missing from certain spots because of how uneven the cuts are. The most telling thing is how the paint layer is on it's on plane. Usually CS Les Pauls have a pretty smooth transition from paint to binding to edge. On mine its unevenly stepped - to a greater degree in certain areas. Lastly, the two-piece maple top seam is both visible on the goldtop, and you can feel physically the seam with your fingertips from the back of the tailpiece all the way down to the body edge. The dealer said this was likely a "Friday guitar" and called it another "Gibsonism" but the dealer can't do anything for me since I'm already two replacements deep and well past my return window. The dealer said VOS guitars are not getting the same level of QC as Murphy Lab guitars and a lot of flaws are getting through. These have all been January to July 2022 guitars according to the Gibson warranty/inspection card.
 

jb_abides

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Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
3,253
It goes back several guitars. I wanted to keep the first one since it was only a serial # issue and it played and sounded incredible but Gibson wouldn't let me keep it and wouldn't provide me with the correct COA/paperwork to prove it was authentic.

The above quote is confusing: the same dealer you bought from with sold you this as the first R6, and yet couldn't authenticate and get paperwork...? And you had to send it back without resolution? Yet this counts as part of 2 guitars in?

Doesn't seem right, make sense. Did you force the issue to authenticate and keep via direct complaint to Gibson?

Wouldn't the second 'cheesy' guitar go to Repair & Restoration if you liked it otherwise? A wait, but better than fishing for naught.

Now, is it they can't produce another R6 from the line in time? The dealer should have some pull to prioritize or be willing to fully refund. Or they work exchange with other dealer with new R6 stock at their cost.

Then, here's plenty of nice R6s on the market, even Murphy Labs. Get your money back and pursue?

It seems being stymied is a matter of the dealer driving the discussion, versus the customer being 'always right' as well as engaging Gibson Customer Service directly to either get another, expedite Repair & Restoration, or work with the dealer to encourage a refund or other resolution.

All this being said, I am going to hazard this is not in Mat's wheelhouse, respectfully.

Sorry for your saga, really. This isn't a great situation. A fellow forum member had his a CS SG show up wand need similar care as your 'cheesy' R6 and they took it back and reworked it for months, but he was ultimately happy. Binding scraping and Friday-isms are perennial pervasive, no matter which ownership's pledge to heighten QC.

Just some ideas to help you out. Good luck with the resolution.
 
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