How does changing studs, tailpiece, etc improve a Les Paul?

[nitrous12]

Seems to be a rather common mod to Les Pauls is changing the studs, tailpiece and bridge. What improvements does this make? Does it change the sound, the feel?

 

[PaulSG]

Tone.

Using locking tailpiece studs, aluminum tail piece and abr-1 bridge = a better sounding guitar.

To topwrap or not is a personal choice, but some say that increases tone as well.

This is a common mod, because it's affordable, easy, and completely reversible.

 

[nitrous12]

I think I am going to get locking studs and a lightweight tailpiece from RS guitars since I need to get their electronics upgrade kit anyway.
And I am going to get the Tonepros bridge with Graph-tec saddles from Guitar Parts Depot.

I put some Kluson Vintage locking tuners on my McCarty that I really liked...might do the same with this guitar, but I'll wait and see how the stock tuners do for a bit. Same with the pups. I don't play my tube amps at home so I have only played this guitar through my Guitar Port.

 

[Radagacuca]

i wouldn´t use the term "better". it MAY change tone a tad but to call this a an improvement is imho not the case. i did a/b with different tailpieces, studs, bridges, pots, caps and
wouldn´t call the (at best) very little differences an improvement for better tone. if you have a nice guitar it will be a nice guitar no matter if your tp is locked or not etc.
the locking stuff imho has some practical advantages but no tonal ones.
i think it´s fun to tinker with the guitars every now and then. for that this "mods" are good. but *MY* experience led me to believe... if it doesn´t sound good stock it won´t do with some funky hardware.
i also don´t believe anyone can tell the tonal differences when the guitar is amplified through that roaring marshall or the likes. especially not in a band situation.
but hey, the tinkering and testing is fun, so make your own experience with all this. i just think you shouldn´t expect too much. make sure you believe what you hear in the end and not the hype about a certain piece of hardware.

cheers

 

[BurstMeUp]

I wouldn´t use the term "better" ...

That's correct - it's just "different". I've tried that set-up, and the aluminum seemed too light for my tastes. I'll stick with the standard hardware.

 

[Dino_k]

I believe the theory is that when the parts make solid contact they are better able to transfer the strings vibration without loss of energy or sustain. The tailpiece/stud fit, at least on my R9 is very loose and allows the tailpiece to move around in the channels designed for it. I never noticed this until I saw a pic posted on the LPF. I went and looked and sure enough mine had about 3/32" of slop. Being an engineer, that just bothered the bejeebers out of me.

The after market versions provide a much more snug fit. Plus it just looks a whole lot better and, tone improvement or not, that does mean something to me.

 

[PaulSG]

i wouldn´t use the term "better". it MAY change tone a tad but to call this a an improvement is imho not the case. i did a/b with different tailpieces, studs, bridges, pots, caps and
wouldn´t call the (at best) very little differences an improvement for better tone. if you have a nice guitar it will be a nice guitar no matter if your tp is locked or not etc.
the locking stuff imho has some practical advantages but no tonal ones.
i think it´s fun to tinker with the guitars every now and then. for that this "mods" are good. but *MY* experience led me to believe... if it doesn´t sound good stock it won´t do with some funky hardware.
i also don´t believe anyone can tell the tonal differences when the guitar is amplified through that roaring marshall or the likes. especially not in a band situation.
but hey, the tinkering and testing is fun, so make your own experience with all this. i just think you shouldn´t expect too much. make sure you believe what you hear in the end and not the hype about a certain piece of hardware.

cheers

Everyone's taste is different, everyone's hearing is different. These upgrades made a difference on every guitar I've done it to. I stand by my statement that they equal a better sounding guitar.

YMMV, as it does with EVERYTHING ever stated on this forum

 

[stephan_l]

i wouldn´t use the term "better". it MAY change tone a tad but to call this a an improvement is imho not the case. i did a/b with different tailpieces, studs, bridges, pots, caps and
wouldn´t call the (at best) very little differences an improvement for better tone. if you have a nice guitar it will be a nice guitar no matter if your tp is locked or not etc.
the locking stuff imho has some practical advantages but no tonal ones.
i think it´s fun to tinker with the guitars every now and then. for that this "mods" are good. but *MY* experience led me to believe... if it doesn´t sound good stock it won´t do with some funky hardware.
i also don´t believe anyone can tell the tonal differences when the guitar is amplified through that roaring marshall or the likes. especially not in a band situation.
but hey, the tinkering and testing is fun, so make your own experience with all this. i just think you shouldn´t expect too much. make sure you believe what you hear in the end and not the hype about a certain piece of hardware.

cheers

+1

 

[Radagacuca]

YMMV, as it does with EVERYTHING ever stated on this forum

relax, i agree to lots of things said on this forum.
but i don´t belong to those who jump on every hype around here (or anywhere else).
i don´t get too exited about everydays new fashion piece of hardware, mod, pickup or whatsoever. simply because in my understanding these things don´t matter much.
as said above, i still do try some things for the fun of it and share *MY* opinion every now and then.
i see this as a discussion forum to discuss and not only to agree with everybody and praise everything coming out of gibson or it´s suppliers. it would be pretty boring if it would work like that right?
just keep in mind that to me a les paul is no more than a very nice guitar and not a religion like it is to some. i am not trying to copy the one-legendary-burst-tone (whatever that may be). i just want to have a tone that fits the music i play and that i like. a different tailpiece or bridge doesn´t play a big role in that.
peace

 

[Greco]

Unless something pisses you off then why changes it? It just so happens that almost every part on my R8 pissed me off so much that I had to change them. In particular - I had a tailpiece that was impossible to topwrap and a bridge that rattled like fuck. Now I have a tonepros bridge and RS tailpiece. I would'nt say these parts are the "Holy Grail", as they're not meant to be, but for me better locking and fit meant better tone and no more rattle. :salude

 

[buyusfear]

Tighter parts translates into better string sustain. Now if that means better or worse tone ton you, you make the call.

I noticed a difference right away. And for the cost of an RS rear end assembly, it's a no brainer im my book.

heres some before and after pics of my guitars...

 

[Radagacuca]

Tighter parts translates into better string sustain.

in theory that surely sounds right and to begin with, gibson should be shipping their tp´s/bridges with way better fitting.
but from a practical view, i have not run into a song that i couldn´t play due to the lack of the guitars sustain. so to me it doesn´t matter in the end. and if the guitar is full of dead notes a better fitting tailpiece won´t fix that anyways.
to say it in extremes... if a certain tailpiece will supply additional 20 minutes of sustain of a note even acoustically played on a lp. that is maybe nice, but as i am in no need of that feature i don´t see a point of buying something to get a hold of it.
now if you like to have the finest possible manufactured hardware on your guitars then that would be a good reason to change the original stuff, but if one´s hoping for some huge improvement on a guitars tone, i think he´d do better looking for another guitar with different tonal characteristics alltogether (within one lp range that is).
for example.. i tried different taiipieces, bridges, pots, caps, pickups on some of my guitars. nothing i did to them changed their tonal character so much that a third party would even notice. so basically no change did anything for the better or the worse. there were just slightly different shades of what the wood delivered. nothing the average joe listening to your playing or even a bandmate would notice.

 

[GuitarDean]

I'm going to back up PaulSG, and Buyus all the way.

They have improved every guitar that I have ever done it to and without a doubt made them better sounding and sometimes even better playing guitars, hands down.

The tonality and sustain were always nicely improved, with and without amplification. Although I no longer have the recordings (I switched DWS formats several years back and the two were not compatible for loading into each other, so I dumped all the files that weren't directly related to songs or a client), I made detailed A/B comparisons with wave files to examine the before and after sound profiles of the specific guitars I worked on. Expertly made bridges, bushings, studs, and tail pieces, as well as extremely high quality capacitors make a remarkable difference to a trained ear, and usually a very noticeable difference to most beginning modifiers.

In regards to the comment that no third party noticed ever noticed these changes that one fellow LPF'er made, I respectfully disagree with that statement for the times that I have done it. I've had several guitar players (all with long time experiance with playing and some with modding) notice that my R7 had upgraded caps in it WITHOUT being told. When you have experiance with the tonal characteristic's of certain guitars, it is usually rather clear to hear the difference between a stock and modded guitar even when NOT played side by side. Great Caps are almost always immediately apparent, especially when you swap out Orange Drops for Spragues which is the example I am using here (my 01' R7 Wavy/Flamed Goldtop).

 

[nitrous12]

Great feedback and discussion here. Thanks!

Radagacuca,
I hear what you are saying about making slight changes/improvements here and there with things but it not making much of a difference in the grand scheme of things in the mix with a band in some bar. I have found that to be true and I general nit pick less these days as long as it sounds pretty good to me I figure most of the crowd isn't judging that...they want to see us rock and have fun and want it to sound tight. My individual guitar tone is not really under critique so as long as it doesn't sound like poopy mud or a bunch of ice picks....rock on.

With that said, if there are some things I can do to enhance the feel and certain aspects of tone...yeah I might give it a try. I like my new LP. I think it plays pretty damn nice. Maybe not quite as easy to play as my McCarty, but definitely up there with some of the nicer guitars I have played.
I don't trust the stock saddles as other guitars I have had with bridges like this broke more strings than any other bridge type. I had good luck switching to graph-tec in the past so I want to do it again...why not go for a locking, better quality bridge too. And for the cost of the tailpiece and locking studs I figured I might try that too, but wanted to understand what the real advantage to doing it will be. If it improves tone and/or playability for me it is worth it. I don't expect the audience to know or care.

I do, without a doubt need to change the volume pots. I don't like the taper they have. It just doesn't work for my live use of the vol knob to clean the tone up. At first I thought I would just do the RS Superpots, but then looking at the price of everything I figure I might as well get the kit and do it all.
I will wait and see how the tuners and pups do after some gigging.

 

[dwagar]

I think the biggest benefit comes from a pair of good steel studs (eg Pigtail). Better coupling with the stock TP (mine is lightweight to start with), better transfer of vibration to the bushings (they are already steel). I'm from the camp that doesn't think you need a locking TP.

 

[rockabilly69]

I said this another post, but you asked so......

One more vote for the parts swap. I changed my bridge 'cause I just wanted the cosmetic look of a ABR and noticed the Faber ABR that was on the PG Standard Fadeds, fit right on the Nashville studs. I also noticed the price was reasonable as CV guitars had a 25% off special on the parts. So when I bought the bridge, I thought I'd buy the matching aged lightweight tailpiece. I actually had a fear that this might be a waste of my money as it might hurt the sound of my Les Paul, and then I have to put the other stuff back on.

It was quite the surprise as I tested the guitar with the same set of strings, and damn if it didn't sound better. I noticed more clarity and sustain.

I had been working on adjusting the neck pickup on my guitar, so I was listening for smaller changes for a few days before I swapped parts, and although I did get a good neck pickup sound with some tweaks and the reinstallation of the cover (I did this cause I actually had been catching the high E string under the coil of the pickup while I was aggressively fingerpicking, and when I reinstalled the cover it changed my tone, which then I had to fix!), well the bridge/tailpiece combo made more of a change than the pickup adjustment.

This tailpiece/bridge mod really sounded good when I was pushing the guitar through a distorted amp. I really loved the clarity of the notes while I was getting it to feedback.

The was the first mod I did since gutting the guitar the day I bought it over six years ago. And the reason I gutted it back then was cause the stock muddy 490/498-shit cap-shit pot setup sucked, it was a high gain with a limited tone control situation, but I loved the weight and the neck shape on this Standard.

I can't count the times in the past that I had swapped pickups and parts, and had been very dissapointed with the outcome. I have boxes of many replacement parts that were taken off my guitars, but these parts ain't going nowhere. They made a good guitar even better. Now if only I can get the neck pickup with the cover to blend better with my bridge pickup. It's a little more work than it used to be. Any hints would be helpful.

Rockabilly69 (dan w)

 

[rockabilly69]

...here's the guitar in all it's clownburst glory

 

[PaulSG]

...I'm from the camp that doesn't think you need a locking TP.

Keeping everything tight and rigid will help transfer vibration. Does it make a major difference in tone? Is it really necessary? Only you can decide.

I like the TonePros and Faber ToneLock systems mainly because they hold the tp in place when restringing.

FWIW, I've never judged a guitars tone when plugged in. Too many variables.

 

[rockabilly69]

PAULSG,

I know what you mean about judging without it being plugged in. My guitar sounded acoustically louder after I made the swap. It could be that my old tailpiece was just crap!

Dan

 

[D'Mule]

I think it is great that all of you guys are hearing improvements in the tone of your guitars after replacing the tailpiece and studs to achieve a tighter fit. I'm sure these are very high quality components.

That said, I don't believe the fit can be the reason. Regardless of how tightly these replacement components fit, you have no evidence that the "fit" of the Gibson components is insufficient to transfer vibration to the wood. The string tension ensures that the tailpiece is firmly seated against the studs, and the studs are firmly seated in the anchors. There is simply no vibration between these components to allow for loss of transfer.:ganz

On the other hand, if you have placed motion sensors on the Gibson tailpiece and studs and have detected some incoherent vibrations, or have performed high speed photography that can detect tailpiece vibrations independent of the studs, please let me know.:laugh2: