How does changing studs, tailpiece, etc improve a Les Paul?

[GlassSnuff]

Using locking tailpiece studs, aluminum tail piece and abr-1 bridge = a better sounding guitar.

When did I ever pass anything off as absolute fact? The OP asked a question, I answered him. I can only answer with my opinion. I never stated it was flat out fact and everyone else's opinion is bullshit.

In English (and most other languages, I would imagine), a statement is considered to be a fact unless qualified with modifiers. These would include the ever popular, "IMHO", as well as "AFAIK", "most people think", "in my experience", "my theory is", "I think", "it seems that", and others.

I don't mean to pick on Paul here, but I do agree with D'Mule. In another similar thread, answers included "Screw the tailpiece down and topwrap." That's not an opinion, folks, that's a command. Am imperative statement that allows no questions. It implies there's only one answer, and that's not true. Please, be more careful, considerate, and, well, honest.

What we end up with is what I call "chanting". It's like there's a game to be played on forums, where one gleans the most common response to a frequently asked question, then tries to be the first with that answer. Aside from top-wrapping, two other chants we often see around here are, "Get an RS kit!" and "Do the '50s mod!". Either might be good advice in a specific circumstance, but as one line responses they don't include a lot of the facts, most importantly that the questioner has other choices.

 

[PaulSG]

In English (and most other languages, I would imagine), a statement is considered to be a fact unless qualified with modifiers. These would include the ever popular, "IMHO", as well as "AFAIK", "most people think", "in my experience", "my theory is", "I think", "it seems that", and others.

I don't mean to pick on Paul here, but I do agree with D'Mule. In another similar thread, answers included "Screw the tailpiece down and topwrap." That's not an opinion, folks, that's a command. Am imperative statement that allows no questions. It implies there's only one answer, and that's not true. Please, be more careful, considerate, and, well, honest.

What we end up with is what I call "chanting". It's like there's a game to be played on forums, where one gleans the most common response to a frequently asked question, then tries to be the first with that answer. Aside from top-wrapping, two other chants we often see around here are, "Get an RS kit!" and "Do the '50s mod!". Either might be good advice in a specific circumstance, but as one line responses they don't include a lot of the facts, most importantly that the questioner has other choices.

This is a internet guitar forum, posters can do nothing else but post their opinion. If you think you are getting anything else, you are sorely mistaken. Take everything you read here with a grain of salt and you'll be fine. Hopefully my signature line will clear up anyones confusion. On the other hand, doing the TP, locking studs etc upgrade does equal a better sounding guitar.

 

[GlassSnuff]

:rofl

 

[les strat]

As far as that goes, old wood, truss rod condom, Brazillian rosewood boards.... all those are in the same category as steel studs. Not a single one of them fact. But I still do not doubt they do make a difference.

 

[Wilcox]

It is my opinion that - The string does not (or should not) vibrate past the bridge, so the tailpiece does not matter in the transfer of string energy (at the frequency of the fretted note) to the body of the guitar. If there is string vibration on the portion of the string between the tailpiece and the bridge, then it is taking energy from the vibrating part of the string somehow (either via the body of the guitar vibrating or because the bridge is not solid enough and it is passing the vibrations) - and it would be at the frequency of the length of the piece of string between the tailpiece and brigge - just as if you plucked that short piece. Now swapping out the tailpiece for one of a different weight may affect the vibrating body of the guitar a little (because of the different mass) - which may change the sound minutely.

 

[dwagar]

IMO all of these changes are minute.

Changing the TP to lightweight is akin to changing to Grovers. There is a change, is it strictly due to change in mass?

Coupling of the TP is discussed by Dan E in his books. As is raising and lowering the TP. Taking the TP out of the equation is just wrong IMO.

We have to watch for, of course, what I like to call the 'car wash effect', ie, how much better your car seems to run after you wash it.

 

[Wilcox]

I have never read Dan E's books, but I would be interested to hear what he has to say about the subject. Like I said, what I wrote above is only my opinion - and I won't stick by it if somebody provides me knew information that can change my opinion - an open mind is the key to learning new things. My present opinion is only based on my past knowledge, which was garnered from the many courses I had to take in physics, vibration, and wave theory to get my degree in Engineering. As well I have built 4 guitars from scratch, refretted and set up many guitars and experminented plenty. Although my experince/knowledge would never come close to somebody like Dan E.

 

[Wilko]

It is my opinion that - The string does not (or should not) vibrate past the bridge, so the tailpiece does not matter in the transfer of string energy (at the frequency of the fretted note) to the body of the guitar.

That is not what actually happens and can be measured scientifically. the vibrating string pulls and pushes as it vibrates the tailpiece.


Some of the energy is transfered through the bridge downward to the body, and some is through the vibrating studs into the top.

That balance can be changed by adjusting the tailpiece height.

IMHO, topwrapping defeats almost all of the gains of tighter parts, moves most of the energy to the tailpiece, and gives a looser feel to the strings.

 

[Dino_k]

What I don't accept is simple speculation or unproven theory passed off as fact.

Well, that sure would make it mighty quiet here on the ol' LPF ...

:hee

 

[John B.]

I just use my ears, it's subtle but it's there.

 

[Pearly Grapes]

I just use my ears, it's subtle but it's there.

+1 :dude:

 

[JThunders]

I did replace the tail piece studs on one of my '80s SGs to a set of 60s 1.5 inch studs.. I noticed my historics had the longer 1.5 in studs so I thought I would try them in some of my other guitars since my historic sounded so good. I wasn't expecting any major changes but I actually was surprised I could tell the difference.. definitely is something to those vintage 1.5 inch tail piece studs

 

[charliechitlins]

Maybe I'm a dope, or maybe my ears are shot, but I'm pretty much a tone nerd (but not a serious tone tinkerer) have been gigging for about 45 years, and I have some loyal customers who pay for my skills as a tech.
That being said...I have a very lightweight aluminum tailpiece that I occasionally swap on and off my #1 Lester when changing strings, and I cannot tell the difference.
Maybe if I did A/B recordings acoustically and unplugged...
But where the rubber meets the road...playing the guitar...I don't sense it.
It's hard to hear a tone, change a piece, listen again 10 minutes later and hear a subtle nuance that is more likely attributed to new strings.
I must confess, though...there was a guy here who changed his THUMBWHEELS and I probably would have branded him a weenie and a corksniffer if he hadn't posted recordings with an audible difference.
The tricky thing is...most changes in tone are just changes...what's better or worse is purely subjective, and I often feel that if someone spends money on a part that is supposed to make their tone "better" and the part makes their tone different, that "different" must be "better".
For instance, the PAF clone aftermarket is PACKED woth options and many people have their preferences; but they are just that...preferences. Few have an actual PAF to compare to, and there is a variation in how real PAFs sound.
Some folks get great pleasure out of tinkering.
Others treat guitars like stamp or coin collectors.
I like to tinker a bit...I just put some new pickups in my Strat...but mostly I do it like the old days.
Get a couple good guitars, find an amp that compliments them, get a couple pedals that sound good with my rig and style, and get to the gig on time.

 

[gary buff]

i wouldn´t use the term "better". it MAY change tone a tad but to call this a an improvement is imho not the case. i did a/b with different tailpieces, studs, bridges, pots, caps and
wouldn´t call the (at best) very little differences an improvement for better tone. if you have a nice guitar it will be a nice guitar no matter if your tp is locked or not etc.
the locking stuff imho has some practical advantages but no tonal ones.
i think it´s fun to tinker with the guitars every now and then. for that this "mods" are good. but *MY* experience led me to believe... if it doesn´t sound good stock it won´t do with some funky hardware.
i also don´t believe anyone can tell the tonal differences when the guitar is amplified through that roaring marshall or the likes. especially not in a band situation.
but hey, the tinkering and testing is fun, so make your own experience with all this. i just think you shouldn´t expect too much. make sure you believe what you hear in the end and not the hype about a certain piece of hardware.

cheers

Great post, been down that road. Knock yourself out as you please (it IS fun and you'll learn stuff) but, as stated, if you are playing in a band situation you'll probably be thinking more about not screwing up and less about those things.

 

[bern1]

I have done a lot of tinkering on guitars and sometimes it makes a difference. Mostly, that difference is quite small on the tailpiece/bridge/saddle/nut mods. My hearing is not what it used to be anyway and now I’d rather just play the guitar and adjust settings on the guitar or amp to compensate one way or the other. (As long as things are in the ballpark.)

 

[charliechitlins]

I have done a lot of tinkering on guitars and sometimes it makes a difference. Mostly, that difference is quite small on the tailpiece/bridge/saddle/nut mods. My hearing is not what it used to be anyway and now I’d rather just play the guitar and adjust settings on the guitar or amp to compensate one way or the other. (As long as things are in the ballpark.)

Yup.
When I heard a difference (on this BB)in thumbwheels, I was really surprised.
There was talk of these aftermarket ones being brass.
I checked the ones on my '71(I admit it) and they sure enough are brass.
Then I found out they're the wrong thickness...OK...I'm out...I don't have the need for that level of minutiae.

 

[Subliminal lanimilbuS]

It all comes down to how all of the parts and the wood make your strings vibrate. Your pickup doesn't pickup anything else other than how the string is vibrating. Well, not completely, as the pickup itself can vibrate like when you tap the top of your guitar. The way the wood and parts act and counteract with those vibrations all add up to your final sound.

I think the biggest part in your tone is the wood. Not just in different types of wood, but also in the state of identical wood species. Age, curing, minerals and chemicals in the ground where it grew, etc. I can remember being baffled by how two identical guitars with the same parts, pickups and strings sounded different. It has to come down to how one guitars wood is helping the vibrations our ears like to hear or taking away the vibrations our ears don't like.

I am not saying wood is a massive factor over your pickups, parts etc., just the biggest. It is an electric guitar and not a violin. I am sure still, though, that lots of people who have played many guitars in their lives have encountered a few that seem to be particularly outstanding with those overtones our ears have grown to love.

 

[gmann]

i wouldn´t use the term "better". it MAY change tone a tad but to call this a an improvement is imho not the case. i did a/b with different tailpieces, studs, bridges, pots, caps and
wouldn´t call the (at best) very little differences an improvement for better tone. if you have a nice guitar it will be a nice guitar no matter if your tp is locked or not etc.
the locking stuff imho has some practical advantages but no tonal ones.
i think it´s fun to tinker with the guitars every now and then. for that this "mods" are good. but *MY* experience led me to believe... if it doesn´t sound good stock it won´t do with some funky hardware.
i also don´t believe anyone can tell the tonal differences when the guitar is amplified through that roaring marshall or the likes. especially not in a band situation.
but hey, the tinkering and testing is fun, so make your own experience with all this. i just think you shouldn´t expect too much. make sure you believe what you hear in the end and not the hype about a certain piece of hardware.

cheers

This guy gets it.

 

[Bruce R]

I have done a lot of tinkering on guitars and sometimes it makes a difference. Mostly, that difference is quite small on the tailpiece/bridge/saddle/nut mods. My hearing is not what it used to be anyway and now I’d rather just play the guitar and adjust settings on the guitar or amp to compensate one way or the other. (As long as things are in the ballpark.)

Amen to all of that, Bernie. Plug in and play.

 

[latestarter]

Related, maybe...my R9 after a refret with new frets seated with hide glue made the most difference I've heard. Louder, more acoustically alive. Plugged in it's subtle, but there is def an improved airiness and jangle.