LP 1975 - Kalamazoo or Nashville?

[aleixlozzano]

So I've got this gorgeous 1975 Les Paul Deluxe with special ordered factory T-Tops. The online S/N decoders say it's made in Kalamazoo, but what you guys think? I'd love if it was made at KLMZ, so it'd be from the same factory as my other beloved Les Paul (a Heritage H-157 from 2002).

Here's some pictures of the '75. (public google drive album)

So... Kalamazoo or Nashville? THANKS!!

????

 

[Wilko]

Neck pickup cavity says Nashville to me.

I could be wrong. I don't know for sure, but likely that style wasn't made in Kalamazoo.

 

[Bob Womack]

With respect, I can tell you that the usual explanation for a modified Deluxe from a selleer that has been aftermarket routed for large humbuckers is that it was special-ordered. From what I can tell, actual orders of LPs with large humbuckers were delivered with a small-script "Standard" legend on their trussrod cover. Yours has no legend. The best way to check is to unscrew a pickup cover and look underneath. If the paint continues uninterrupted into the pickup wells it is a factory job. If the paint is broken by routing for the large humbucker it is typically an aftermarket job. Yours is broken around the perimeter. Control cavity shield plate is from Nashville. Chrome jack plate is from Nashville. The neck volute looks like Nashville. The serial number is a decal, and that started in Nashville. The neck looks to be maple, and that started in Nashville.

Given the appointments, I'd say it is a very pretty Nashvillian, but I'm just a regular shmoe who owns a '74 Kalamazoo small script Standard and has done some research about those odd birds. I bought my '74 used in '77, in Knoxville, TN, when the brand new, sparkling Nashville Standards were hanging in all the stores.

Bob

 

[guitplayer]

No pointers, 1st fret side dot marker, nash bridge. Decal LP`s nash.

 

[Wilko]

That is a factory humbucker guitar. No doubt. No mini hum screw holes, clean routing with paint in all the right places.

I had a factory 74/75 tobacco sunburst with deluxe decal in oval depression on a mahogany neck. Trans tenon. ABR in no-bushing posts with brass bushes in the "Nashville" bridge to adapt it to the smaller posts, I guess.

I don't have pics of the cavities...

 

[gakees]

Beautiful guitar.

 

[aleixlozzano]

With respect, I can tell you that the usual explanation for a modified Deluxe from a selleer that has been aftermarket routed for large humbuckers is that it was special-ordered. From what I can tell, actual orders of LPs with large humbuckers were delivered with a small-script "Standard" legend on their trussrod cover. Yours has no legend. The best way to check is to unscrew a pickup cover and look underneath. If the paint continues uninterrupted into the pickup wells it is a factory job. If the paint is broken by routing for the large humbucker it is typically an aftermarket job. Yours is broken around the perimeter. Control cavity shield plate is from Nashville. Chrome jack plate is from Nashville. The neck volute looks like Nashville. The serial number is a decal, and that started in Nashville. The neck looks to be maple, and that started in Nashville.

Given the appointments, I'd say it is a very pretty Nashvillian, but I'm just a regular shmoe who owns a '74 Nashville small script Standard and has done some research about those odd birds. I bought my '74 used in '77, in Knoxville, TN, when the brand new, sparkling Nashville Standards were hanging in all the stores.

Bob

Hey Bob! The truss rod cover was replaced with a blank one, so I don't have info there. If you look closely, you'll see no mini-humbucker or P90 screw routing, as well as some paint inside the left area of the neck pickup cavity. So I'm pretty sure it's a Deluxe with factory-ordered humbuckers. I bought it from a LA store and the guy assured it was made in Kalamazoo... IDK if sending this pictures to Gibson Contact Support would help???

 

[guitplayer]

Nashville bridge = Nashville. Those are not kalamazoo pickup routs.
Probably has a round wiring channel. Matters little where it was made, still a
nice guitar.

 

[Bob Womack]

Hey Bob! The truss rod cover was replaced with a blank one, so I don't have info there. If you look closely, you'll see no mini-humbucker or P90 screw routing, as well as some paint inside the left area of the neck pickup cavity. So I'm pretty sure it's a Deluxe with factory-ordered humbuckers. I bought it from a LA store and the guy assured it was made in Kalamazoo... IDK if sending this pictures to Gibson Contact Support would help???

Hi! I'm not so sure anyone is left from the period n Nashville who could speak to it. From '73 to '75, when people special-ordered LPs with full-sized humbuckers from Kalamazoo, they got a guitar with a trussrod cover with the Legend "Standard" in a small script, like this:

That is my guitar's headstock. The serial number is stamped in the back.

However, the "Standard" model didn't exist until the Gibson Nashville plant opened. The new official Standard model debuted as the flagship model of the Nashville plant and was given a large-script cover like the ones today:

As far as I can tell, the small-script Standard trussrod cover was never offered separately to the public, but when the official Standard model came out they started offering the trussrod covers via the accessory shop. In '77 they were available at dealers - I wanted to replace my small script one but never did. It was also normal for people who had their luthier or tech put large humbuckers on a Deluxe to change the trussrod cover to either a large script Standard cover or a blank one.
However, If we discard my comment about the routes, everything else still points to Nashville: volute, maple neck, chrome jack plate, serial decal, shielding plate in cavity, bridge, even paint patterns and fading. The silly K'zoo guitars didn't really fade well in this period.

By contrast, here is my '74 Kalamazoo Standard:

Bob

 

[guitplayer]

From what I understand , the earliest 1974 Standards came with the
small script STANDARD TRC. This is a 1974 factory standard that is original.
It came with the large script. If you look the large script is different than what you posted

 

[aleixlozzano]

Hi! I'm not so sure anyone is left from the period n Nashville who could speak to it. From '73 to '75, when people special-ordered LPs with full-sized humbuckers from Kalamazoo, they got a guitar with a trussrod cover with the Legend "Standard" in a small script, like this:

That is my guitar's headstock. The serial number is stamped in the back.

Your'e totally right! I suppose some previous owner of my '75 liked blank truss rod covers, and changed it. I'd love to have one of those "pre-standard" small typo TRCs! About the Kalamazoo/Nashville question, I see your point. The KLMZ paintings and finishes are different (as I've seen in some examples). With that, and all the other things you pointed out (volute, maple neck, chrome jack plate, serial decal, shielding plate in cavity, bridge), I'm beginning to think the lady was born in Nashville. I wrote to Gibson Customer Support and sent all the pictures the them (poor people ), let's see what they say!

 

[Big Al]

Nashville. There is no doubt. I don't know if I've ever seen a 75 Standard that didn't say Deluxe on the decal. They did say Standard on the truss cover.

 

[Bedroom Thrasher]

Looks exactly like my 76 Standard. Says Deluxe on the decal. Has a plastic output jack plate though. Tuners replaced with Schallers.

 

[jimmi]

Hi! I'm not so sure anyone is left from the period n Nashville who could speak to it. From '73 to '75, when people special-ordered LPs with full-sized humbuckers from Kalamazoo, they got a guitar with a trussrod cover with the Legend "Standard" in a small script, like this:

That is my guitar's headstock. The serial number is stamped in the back.

However, the "Standard" model didn't exist until the Gibson Nashville plant opened. The new official Standard model debuted as the flagship model of the Nashville plant and was given a large-script cover like the ones today:

As far as I can tell, the small-script Standard trussrod cover was never offered separately to the public, but when the official Standard model came out they started offering the trussrod covers via the accessory shop. In '77 they were available at dealers - I wanted to replace my small script one but never did. It was also normal for people who had their luthier or tech put large humbuckers on a Deluxe to change the trussrod cover to either a large script Standard cover or a blank one.
However, If we discard my comment about the routes, everything else still points to Nashville: volute, maple neck, chrome jack plate, serial decal, shielding plate in cavity, bridge, even paint patterns and fading. The silly K'zoo guitars didn't really fade well in this period.

By contrast, here is my '74 Kalamazoo Standard:

Bob

What serial number method did Kalamazoo put on if not the same stamp from 75-77?

 

[Bob Womack]

What serial number method did Kalamazoo put on if not the same stamp from 75-77?

The Kalamazoo pre-official ("Small Script") Kalamazoo Standards I've seen have all had the serial stamped into the wood.

The Nashville guitars from '76-'77 have their serial applied via a sticker with small gold letters and numbers that was under the finish.

Bob

 

[aleixlozzano]

Looks exactly like my 76 Standard. Says Deluxe on the decal. Has a plastic output jack plate though. Tuners replaced with Schallers.

Where was it made? It's sooooo similar to my LP!

 

[aleixlozzano]

The Kalamazoo pre-official ("Small Script") Kalamazoo Standards I've seen have all had the serial stamped into the wood.
The Nashville guitars from '76-'77 have their serial applied via a sticker with small gold letters and numbers that was under the finish.
Bob

But this one is from 1975 and is NOT a Standard, is a Deluxe wit special ordered factory humbuckers. As far as I Know, all 75s (both from Kalamazoo and Nashville) had decal S/Ns.

 

[guitplayer]

The Nashville guitars from '76-'77 have their serial applied via a sticker with small gold letters and numbers that was under the finish.
Bob
You might think about not being so hard headed about this.
Bob is absolutely right.

 

[Wilko]

'75 also had decals with gold lettering. Serial started with 99 and even though factory humbucker, the serial sticker said "Les Paul Deluxe". I had this one for a long time, but sold it circa 2003.
Mahogany neck, transitional tenon, ABR style posts with adapted Nashville bridge (factory). Oval depression around serial number. Had small "standard" but was swapped to bigger standard script before this pic. I don't remember if this TRC was engraved or painted. Was told by PO that the speed knobs were factory. I alsways thought this one was Kalamazoo. Were any trans tenon, mahogany necks made in Nashville?

 

[Big Al]

'75 also had decals with gold lettering. Serial started with 99 and even though factory humbucker, the serial sticker said "Les Paul Deluxe". I had this one for a long time, but sold it circa 2003.
Mahogany neck, transitional tenon, ABR style posts with adapted Nashville bridge (factory). Oval depression around serial number. Had small "standard" but was swapped to bigger standard script before this pic. I don't remember if this TRC was engraved or painted. Was told by PO that the speed knobs were factory. I alsways thought this one was Kalamazoo. Were any trans tenon, mahogany necks made in Nashville?


View attachment 22126

Not that I've ever seen. Those features are Kalamazoo made, I never have seen them from Nashville at that time. Interesting about the bridge, mine had the chrome abr1 and I remember feeling gipped as all the ones later showed up with the nashville bridge. Also had insert knobs which I quickly changed to speed knobs.