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Making the Gibson Les Paul Custom Shop 2021 even better!!

guitarbob123

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Jan 2, 2009
Messages
189
Boy does this raise questions with me...

IF Gibson glued the fretboard PRIOR to setting the neck in the body HOW THE HELL could the above picture be correct?

I am calling bullshit.

The gap would be UNDER THE HEEL. Not on the top.

I.E. the fingerboard would have been glued to the section that is lower. Then when set the gap would have been UNDER the whole neck.

If anything the above picture points out the opposite happened. The fingerboard was glued on AFTER the neck was set.

Not to support the previous argument but Gibson have uploaded videos of their build process, showing that they glue the board to the neck before fitting to the body.

Equally, I'd imagine plenty of bursts have all sorts of 'problems' if someone bothered to dismantle them.

I do also get a bit of a strange feeling that Florian seems to suggest almost every single guitar that goes through him needs a neck reset, he knows a hell of a lot more about guitars than I do but I can only say what I've been seeing. I do wonder if it's something that he's got a bee in his bonnet over more than an actual issue (see above point about burst construction not being 'perfect'). It is also convenient that the process adds €800 to the bill, but I don't wish to cause any issues as I am certainly not a guitar luthier and I do admire Florian's work!

It'd be useful to know if Historic Makeovers have spotted the same thing and it really is a flaw in the original construction process.
 
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Morgan24

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Nov 1, 2020
Messages
130
Boy does this raise questions with me...

IF Gibson glued the fretboard PRIOR to setting the neck in the body HOW THE HELL could the above picture be correct?

I am calling bullshit.

The gap would be UNDER THE HEEL. Not on the top.

I.E. the fingerboard would have been glued to the section that is lower. Then when set the gap would have been UNDER the whole neck.

If anything the above picture points out the opposite happened. The fingerboard was glued on AFTER the neck was set.
Well it could happend in a lot of ways. Here is a video of the process. It is 4 minutes in, that you can see how it is done.
 

AA00475Bassman

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Apr 26, 2016
Messages
3,456
This is a very familiar photo I kept my little yap shut out respect and acting Dickish to the posting owner .
Fingerboard glue joint above tenon let go when installed & clamp not probable.
Clamping on fingerboard & back of guitar would create a gap in floor of neck joint .
There is information missing with this photo now & when it was originally posted.

Horse pucky
 
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Morgan24

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Nov 1, 2020
Messages
130
This is a very familiar photo I kept my little yap shut out respect and acting Dickish to the posting owner .
Fingerboard glue joint above tenon let go when installed & clamp not probable.
Clamping on fingerboard & back of guitar would create a gap in floor of neck joint .
There is information missing with this photo now & when it was originally posted.

Horse pucky
Could you please elaborate, you seem to know a lot on this subject? What information is missing?
 

AA00475Bassman

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Apr 26, 2016
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The heel could hide gap between neck pocket floor & the tenon , still does not explain photo anomaly ?
 

Morgan24

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Nov 1, 2020
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Well I wrote Florian Jaeger how often he has to reset the neck on Custom Shop Les Paul 59 models when he removes the fretboard, so he can see the neck joint. I asked if it was one out of ten, five out of ten or? The reply was not good news:
Screenshot_20210214-135605_mailcom.jpg
 

AA00475Bassman

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Apr 26, 2016
Messages
3,456
Could you please elaborate, you seem to know a lot on this subject? What information is missing
The information missing is how the guitar body stands proud to the top of the neck when the fingerboard is glued to the neck as a sub assembly .

Disclaimer : The Email explains nothing , real surprise to hear the doctor cured the patient !
 

randall

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Feb 21, 2002
Messages
1,310
So i better shell out $1400 dollars to have my guitars neck properly installed into the body of my guitar now because some guy says so?
I bet this claim wouldn't be made if he had to do this for free, he would say Gibson did this perfectly. Gibson's plan all along was to set up business 120 years ago, design and manufacture guitars and to make their guitars inaccuracy just so some other independent "expert" can sell you on doing the job better. Those guys at Gibson are plan just out to get us!
 

Morgan24

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Nov 1, 2020
Messages
130
1: You have seen the video?. 2: You then know Gibson put the neck on after they put the fretboard on? 3: They have never done this in the past! Why not, it is so much easier? 4: Then you know they cant see see what is going on in the neck joint, because the fretboard hides it? 5: The person (Florian Jaeger) that takes the fretboard off, and therefore can see what is going, say he has to reset the neck ten out of ten times!. 6: Your are still 100% sure that there is no reason to might be little bit unsure about this production method?
PLEASE DONT KILL THE MESSENGER🤗
 

guitarbob123

Active member
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
189
1: You have seen the video?. 2: You then know Gibson put the neck on after they put the fretboard on? 3: They have never done this in the past! Why not, it is so much easier? 4: Then you know they cant see see what is going on in the neck joint, because the fretboard hides it? 5: The person (Florian Jaeger) that takes the fretboard off, and therefore can see what is going, say he has to reset the neck ten out of ten times!. 6: Your are still 100% sure that there is no reason to might be little bit unsure about this production method?
PLEASE DONT KILL THE MESSENGER🤗

The person who says he 'has' to reset the neck also then sticks €800 on top of his fees to 'fix' the problem he himself has identified. There's surely also tens of thousands of people running around with this supposed 'issue' without anything falling to pieces or sounding like a truckers farts.

I don't want to accuse Florian of being underhand, but from a neutral's perspective it does seem questionable that the guy who makes €800 every time he tells someone that it 'needs' to be done would want that to be perceived as fact. (Hence why I thought it would be useful to know if other luthiers or those who have done makeovers have spotted this 'issue')

I think the point being made is that if the board is glued down so tightly to the neck before being attached to the body, then where does the gap come from between the neck and the board? Surely that gap has to exist between the neck and board before the body comes into play?

Are any of the Gibson CS guys on this forum? Would be interesting to know their side of it and why the board goes on first. I seem to remember it was something to do with better alignment and ensuring the scale was correct for the neck? (Again, not my field of expertise!)
 

Morgan24

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Nov 1, 2020
Messages
130
The person who says he 'has' to reset the neck also then sticks €800 on top of his fees to 'fix' the problem he himself has identified. There's surely also tens of thousands of people running around with this supposed 'issue' without anything falling to pieces or sounding like a truckers farts.

I don't want to accuse Florian of being underhand, but from a neutral's perspective it does seem questionable that the guy who makes €800 every time he tells someone that it 'needs' to be done would want that to be perceived as fact. (Hence why I thought it would be useful to know if other luthiers or those who have done makeovers have spotted this 'issue')

I think the point being made is that if the board is glued down so tightly to the neck before being attached to the body, then where does the gap come from between the neck and the board? Surely that gap has to exist between the neck and board before the body comes into play?

Are any of the Gibson CS guys on this forum? Would be interesting to know their side of it and why the board goes on first. I seem to remember it was something to do with better alignment and ensuring the scale was correct for the neck? (Again, not my field of expertise!)
If Florian Jaeger sent me a picture of the neck joint on my Les paul looking like the previous picture I would definetely want a neck reset , wouldnt you? I dont think it is fair that you think that to Florian Jaeger it is all about money, even though he confirm the problem with a picture to the customer.
 

guitarbob123

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Jan 2, 2009
Messages
189
If Florian Jaeger sent me a picture of the neck joint on my Les paul looking like the previous picture I would definetely want a neck reset , wouldnt you? I dont think it is fair that you think that to Florian Jaeger it is all about money, even though he confirm the problem with a picture to the customer.
I didn’t say he was all about the money, was just an observation, I believe he’s a fine craftsman!

I would question whether it had any material impact or whether it was snake oil/forum voodoo. I do wonder how many original bursts have ‘imperfect’ neck joints, yet they’re considered holy grails and you’d never see anyone suggesting a neck reset.

It might be imperfect craftsmanship by Gibson but does it have a material impact? Unpotted humbuckers are ‘imperfect’ as they can be microphonic and feedback easily, I don’t see people rushing to pot every PAF and PAF replica out there though. I think maybe the same applies here, Gibson didn’t get everything perfect or ‘right’ back in the 50s. If you had an original burst and Florian told you there was a pocket of air would you tell him to rip the board off and reset the neck? If it sounds good then it sounds good and it’s better to get on and play!

I do think there’s a point where there’s too much ‘historical accuracy’ Kool-Aid being drunk. Meanwhile Jimmy running around with a T-top bridge pickup, Jeff Beck playing a refin Tele with rewound PAFs and Greeny with its neck broken so many times that it’s a practically zombie still all sound amazing, despite the imperfections.

What happens when you plug the ‘perfect’ Les Paul into a bum amp where the cap values are all over the place? Where do you draw the line?
 

pinodorato

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Dec 26, 2015
Messages
32
Almost every luthier/builder attaches the neck with the fretboard already glued. These are a photos from Gil Yaron and Tom Bartlett, two of the most talented guys out there.
 

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El Gringo

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Apr 8, 2015
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5,099
Far be it from me to disparage anyone's desire to make a buck but this seems to be marketing 101 to drum up some business and trying to reinvent the wheel . So now I will be the 2nd to call BS .
 

renderit

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Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,365
Almost as good as those videos bitching about 'plasticizers' when they are obviously stripping factory finishes after stripper is applied.

Folks, finish on ANYTHING will look like that if you use stripper to take it off!


NOW: Please don't take this to mean I do not respect Florian or any of the rebuilders.

I think they are ALL damn fine craftsmen and I really respect their work.

I would like to have one redone by them myself, but I can't find one I already have I think needs changed enough to do it...
 

Morgan24

Active member
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Nov 1, 2020
Messages
130
Does anyone else have a picture of the neck pocket with the fretboard off? No one sees a problem in this picture??
 

AA00475Bassman

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Apr 26, 2016
Messages
3,456
Does anyone else have a picture of the neck pocket with the fretboard off? No one sees a problem in this picture??
You can clearly see the body stands proud to the the neck , could this be shrinking from steam ? Please explain is the fretboard separation from the neck .

I'm not convinced of a defective assembly, I'm convinced of a result of process removing , I would think Kim at HM would slap something like this on his web site !

Disclaimer : We see it & most like me believe it's not a factory flaw , hard to accept Florian's blanket statement as to how repetitive this is .
 
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