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CS0, CS9, CS8, CS7 at Wildwood

DanD

Active member
Joined
Apr 8, 2007
Messages
2,366
Excuse me, Welcome! should have proceeded the previous post. :salude
 

redisburning

Les Paul Froum Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2015
Messages
256
My BRAND NEW 2015 CS9 is arriving Wednesday. Since the last post to this thread, it has become apparent that those who questioned Gibson's marketing strategy were correct, as the CS for 2016 now appears to be the Standard Historic and went up another 300 bucks in price. Regardless, here's why I bought a CS9: The cheapest used 2013 or 2014 R9 is at least $4500-$5000. New CS9s were selling for $6,200, although apparently slowly. I got the last one at Sam Ash for $3999. I am buying the guitar to play. Not because it's a historic recreation, but because it's a quality Les Paul that weighs under nine pounds without weight relief.

I am sure some folks here will tell be I should have bought a used R9. Well I have 45 days to decide. But it it feels as great as I think it will, I'm keeping it. I don't really care about the tendon.

I get buying a guitar to play and not as an art object. I did the same with my historic.

The thing is, at least from my perspective the odds suggest you're likely going to lose more than 500 on resale difference. IMO resale should always matter. I was very happy with my R8. Until I got my CC15. Then I sold my R8. It happens, and you just dont know today that you wont find something you like a lot better in the future, so why take those odds at all?

This is like people asking about the two piece fretboard and a bunch of people chime in about how they are still good guitars. well, sure, ok, but with so many great other historics out there, why would you buy one unless you knew from the outset the specific guitar you were looking at was appreciably better than any other at the same price?
 

Roshy Boy

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Mar 15, 2016
Messages
8
My BRAND NEW 2015 CS9 is arriving Wednesday. Since the last post to this thread, it has become apparent that those who questioned Gibson's marketing strategy were correct, as the CS for 2016 now appears to be the Standard Historic and went up another 300 bucks in price. Regardless, here's why I bought a CS9: The cheapest used 2013 or 2014 R9 is at least $4500-$5000. New CS9s were selling for $6,200, although apparently slowly. I got the last one at Sam Ash for $3999. I am buying the guitar to play. Not because it's a historic recreation, but because it's a quality Les Paul that weighs under nine pounds without weight relief.

I am sure some folks here will tell be I should have bought a used R9. Well I have 45 days to decide. But it it feels as great as I think it will, I'm keeping it. I don't really care about the tendon.

I bought the CS7 about a month ago. I read all about these here and took the plunge when WW dropped the price. I think it was more of a Gibson rebate to help them get rid of them. Regardless, the price came down to a decent level.

I knew these guitars did not get any love here or on the other forum. Made no difference to me. It's a fantastic "special run". Even though that wasn't the intent. Gibson's marketing error is our win. Like you, I weighed the used R series. There's still a big difference in price. The CS series is a great option to get the vintage vibe. Sure, you don't get bragging rights of the long tenon. The thousand dollar savings over shadowed that in my wallet.

Thought I would join today after seeing your post and give another positive comment for these. Hope you'll be as happy with your's as I am with mine.
 

DanD

Active member
Joined
Apr 8, 2007
Messages
2,366
I bought the CS7 about a month ago. I read all about these here and took the plunge when WW dropped the price. I think it was more of a Gibson rebate to help them get rid of them. Regardless, the price came down to a decent level.

...
The CS series is a great option to get the vintage vibe. Sure, you don't get bragging rights of the long tenon. The thousand dollar savings over shadowed that in my wallet.

...

I think that if Gibson priced them properly from the outset many others would have come to the same conclusion.

Really, what is that extra 1.5 inches of wood worth to you? :hmm

I know I'd pay a grand for an extra inch and a half of wood but that's a totally different ball game... :hee:laugh2::ha
 

30yearnovice

New member
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
2
I think you did just fine. The price you paid should have been Gibson's "inrtoductory" pricing for the CS 9.

Wildwood couldn't move any stock at the original $6299 pricing. After lowering the price to $3399 for CS 7 and CS 8 models and $3999 for CS 9 and CS 0 models they have sold all but a few.

They actually went from an inventory of ~30 to about 8 in a matter of a month.

Gibson blew it by being to greedy on the original pricing of the CS line. :peace2


Thank you for your affirmation. But the is the funny thing. I did a little more due diligence and web surfing and found a mint 2016 Standard Historic `59 in a color I prefer for a couple hundred bucks more. So the CS is going back to Sam Ash undelivered. The only actual difference may be the tenon, but I also have a feeling the neck shape may be a little more to my liking as well.
 

lemonLP59

New member
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Messages
47
Will they ever sell one?

Yes.

In regards to those who think the neck tenon is "short", it is the same tenon as used on the Les Paul Custom models, not to be confused with the short tenon of a Gibson USA Les Paul Traditional.

Yes, the guitar sounds fantastic.
 

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lemonLP59

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Mar 20, 2016
Messages
47
They are never going to market a short neck tenon as a better feature than what is on their top of line,.

Interesting. Do you not recommend the exact same longish tenon that comes on a Les Paul Custom? You know, the slightly shorter one that is also wider?
 
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MikeSlub

Administrator
Joined
Jul 15, 2001
Messages
15,029
The CS guitars were fine guitars. Problem was (1) high price point, and (2) the deviation from "conventional wisdom" and brand image regarding Gibson Custom being the maker of "long neck tenon" LPs. :hank
 

B Ingram

Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
730
I bought the CS7 about a month ago. I ... took the plunge when WW dropped the price. I think it was more of a Gibson rebate to help them get rid of them. Regardless, the price came down to a decent level. ...

I don't know if the $6199 MSRP on Gibson's site now applies to the 2015 CS9 series guitars WW has on sale now (at ~$4k). I don't know if Gibson offered any "rebate" (but I'd be surprised if they did). I do notice the $4k selling price is very d___ close to dealer cost for a Gibson with a $6199 MSRP, assuming Gibson still has the same dealer pricing structure I was familiar with a couple-decades ago.

A lot of assumptions on my part, but assuming the MSRP I noted above is correct for 2015 CS9/CS0, and assuming Gibson hasn't given any rebates, and assuming dealer pricing structure is the same as I recall, the I read this as WW taking a bath on the CS guitars and having to move them essentially at cost.
 

lemonLP59

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Mar 20, 2016
Messages
47
I don't know if the $6199 MSRP on Gibson's site now applies to the 2015 CS9 series guitars WW has on sale now (at ~$4k). I don't know if Gibson offered any "rebate" (but I'd be surprised if they did). I do notice the $4k selling price is very d___ close to dealer cost for a Gibson with a $6199 MSRP, assuming Gibson still has the same dealer pricing structure I was familiar with a couple-decades ago.

A lot of assumptions on my part, but assuming the MSRP I noted above is correct for 2015 CS9/CS0, and assuming Gibson hasn't given any rebates, and assuming dealer pricing structure is the same as I recall, the I read this as WW taking a bath on the CS guitars and having to move them essentially at cost.

Yes WW is selling them at a supposed "loss" for 4K ($3400 for a CS8). That is what I was told. Sure is a nice CS Les Paul for 4K, with warranty, COA, and no modifications. Mine came with factory installed Grover tuners too. I love that.

I have yet to buff out the VOS, I also have a clear pickguard that will replace the CS guard.

I have so much money left over, maybe I'll buy a used R9. :eek:la
 

Roshy Boy

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Mar 15, 2016
Messages
8
The only reason I thought a rebate was in play is because I saw Sweetwater's showed the same price, and showed an $1,800 rebate. Usually a rebate means it comes from the manufacturer. At least that's how I took it. When I saw WW had the same price, I guessed it included a rebate. I wanted to buy from them , because I bought my Thinskin Tele from them and think they do a real nice job. Plus, I like how they measure the necks. Mines .92 at the first fret and 1.00 at the 12th. It's the biggest neck I've played. Bigger than my Tele.
 

lemonLP59

New member
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Messages
47
The only reason I thought a rebate was in play is because I saw Sweetwater's showed the same price, and showed an $1,800 rebate. Usually a rebate means it comes from the manufacturer. At least that's how I took it. When I saw WW had the same price, I guessed it included a rebate. I wanted to buy from them , because I bought my Thinskin Tele from them and think they do a real nice job. Plus, I like how they measure the necks. Mines .92 at the first fret and 1.00 at the 12th. It's the biggest neck I've played. Bigger than my Tele.

Enjoy it!

I love the R9 neck profile. Very comfortable. Even if you are used to playing skinnier necks.
 

lemonLP59

New member
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Mar 20, 2016
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47
Bullshit.
There is no structural or tonal advantage to the vintage tenon over the same kind of tenon that is a wee bit shorter. If anything the newer tenon has a wider shape that retains more of the necks wood and increases wood to wood contact for what may be better tone transfer.

Big Al, I have positive proof of your assertion. I hear no difference between my '13 R9 and my '15 CS9 through the very same amp with the exact same settings. Someone would have to be told beforehand which guitar was which, because your ears wouldn't know.
 

lemonLP59

New member
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Messages
47
Now there's a good question for the Moderators! Is a CS NGD posting allowed here? These are Historics. Although the heading says Gibson Custom/Historic we all know the CS's are not historics. Should they be relegated to the Sunburst Lounge?

Say, don't you own one of those lesser R8s? I heard they're OK.

As the owner of an R9 and a CS9, I can tell you your assertions are absolutely wrong. I can hear no difference between the 2 using the same amp. Everything you said about "small tenons" was absolute bullshit. The CS9 has the exact same tenon as the Les Paul Custom, from the Custom Shop.

The title of this pub is rather clear, "Custom/Historic Les Paul District". Reading is fundamental, perhaps you require some practice?

Anyway, best of luck with the R8. I'm glad there's room here for lesser guitars.:salude
 

redisburning

Les Paul Froum Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2015
Messages
256
Say, don't you own one of those lesser R8s? I heard they're OK.

As the owner of an R9 and a CS9, I can tell you your assertions are absolutely wrong. I can hear no difference between the 2 using the same amp. Everything you said about "small tenons" was absolute bullshit. The CS9 has the exact same tenon as the Les Paul Custom, from the Custom Shop.

The title of this pub is rather clear, "Custom/Historic Les Paul District". Reading is fundamental, perhaps you require some practice?

Anyway, best of luck with the R8. I'm glad there's room here for lesser guitars.:salude

your language betrays the fact that it is more obvious to you than to anyone else here that a CS is not, in fact, an R.
 
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lemonLP59

New member
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Mar 20, 2016
Messages
47
the butthurt in your post is astronomical. 3 posts in a row and necroing a thread, and getting borderline personal.

like has been said a million times; they're fine guitars, they aren't an R. the market agrees. Gibson agreed. only some the (few) people who bought them argue otherwise.

not an R not an R not an R

and never will be.

to top it all off your language betrays the fact that it is more obvious to you than to anyone else here.

Yes, cognitive dissonance rules your ears.

I have both guitars. "The Market" as you put it, doesn't have both guitars.

My knowledge is not pedantic, it is rooted in actuality. If they look the same, and sound the same, I have to think they are pretty much the same. To say otherwise, is downright lame.

"Oh it's not an R" It's not good enough for me, oh the humanity...."
 

Sct13

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
569
The point wasn't how they sounded comparatively, of course there is an immeasurable/imperceptible difference. Its this very thing they used against the consumer, the whole marketing plan was to pull a fast one and try to streamline the production line....and the average consumer will know none the wiser. Oh ....BTW increase the price....

Car companies do it all the time, and some Les Paul collectors had enough of it and spoke up...

I played a few of the CS's and they are nice guitars and so are the TH's ....I think Gibson played games with the wrong bunch...
 

redisburning

Les Paul Froum Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2015
Messages
256
Yes, cognitive dissonance rules your ears.

I have both guitars. "The Market" as you put it, doesn't have both guitars.

My knowledge is not pedantic, it is rooted in actuality. If they look the same, and sound the same, I have to think they are pretty much the same.

all I have for you is that it's not me that's trying to convince myself publicly.

enjoy your guitar, its laughable resale value and your more than apparent bitterness :3zone
 

renderit

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,406
Say, don't you own one of those lesser R8s? I heard they're OK.

As the owner of an R9 and a CS9, I can tell you your assertions are absolutely wrong. I can hear no difference between the 2 using the same amp. Everything you said about "small tenons" was absolute bullshit. The CS9 has the exact same tenon as the Les Paul Custom, from the Custom Shop.

The title of this pub is rather clear, "Custom/Historic Les Paul District". Reading is fundamental, perhaps you require some practice?

Anyway, best of luck with the R8. I'm glad there's room here for lesser guitars.:salude


I own many 13 and 14 R's. Whats the point? You attack me with something I didn't say I believe...

Quote ANYTHING I said which is WRONG about the short tenons on this thread...

I give not a single shit about what you "hear". I said NOTHING incorrect about long versus short tenons. "Reading is fundamental." Yup the question regarding the forum was wrong. I got that wrong. I admit it. But you are "reading" something which ain't there. And unless I am mistaken the Custom was added to the forum name rather recently...

So why the attack after almost a year? Take that long to formulate a snappy retort?

I am waiting for your apology, then I will delete this.
 
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